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Raw Truths for Men: Uncensored | Part 2 | Iman Cave
I’m married, but now the spark is gone. My wife doesn’t respect me. How can I fix my marriage? Is divorce the solution? Join us for part 2 of 3 of this special Iman Cave deep-dive into divorce with Sh. Abdullah Oduro, joined by behavior therapist and counsellor Faizan Majid and licensed marriage and family therapist Usman Mughni, as they discuss the issues that may lead to divorce during marriage.
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. The night of the marriage, he has a box. In this box, he opens the box, and it's attire. It's a certain type of attire that he's expecting. The sister got scared, and he was slightly frustrated. When I'm hearing this, I'm thinking immediately, okay, why is your expectation this immediately? In order to receive understanding, you have to give understanding. And when the person knows that you're willing to have that husna dhan, and like, okay, I don't fully get it, but I'm willing to understand why this bothers you. I might not even agree with you 100%, but I'm willing to understand what bothers you about this. You may have to reach out to another person, another person, until you get a response. And I know that puts the onus on the brother. But that strength of reaching out will be challenged. And that challenge may come in the aspect of not receiving a response from the first person or the second person. The process of reaching out is a burden, is difficult, but it is also something that you can bear as well. What would you advise a friend that receives that phone call from the wife, from his friend's wife that he's been domestically abusing her? Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. How's everyone doing? I'm Abdullah Oduro, and welcome to the Iman Cave, where we discuss issues of male excellence while being grounded in faith. I'm done. I can't do this anymore. You know, I think I want a divorce. I don't know if I can handle this. This statement has been said by some of us that are viewing, or we've heard our fathers or mothers say this. You know, in Islam, it's very important for us to understand initially that the goal of what is called the maqasid of the sharia or the Islamic objectives is to establish and maintain families. With the reality that Al-Khaliq, the creator of the heavens and the earth, knows us as
human beings, and that we're human, we'll forget, we'll be negligent, and sometimes we may not be compatible. Meaning, two people that are trying to be their best may not be compatible. We see this with the life of the Prophet ﷺ and the companions that talaq, divorce, took place. Thank you for joining. We are on our second portion of the series entitled Divorce, Problem or Solution? If you tuned into the first show, it was about before marriage. As you know, we are going to talk about three components or phases, before marriage, during marriage, and after marriage. The last show was about before marriage. What are some of the pitfalls and what are some preventative measures that you men can take in regards to getting married, some things that you should consider? Now we're going to talk about during marriage. How can it be divorce during marriage? Where's the connection? Well, many people that we know and many people, maybe you, and it's okay because the divorce can be a solution sometimes and can be a problem, and we're going to dive deep into that. During the marriage, sometimes people may not be there mentally. They may be divorced mentally in their mind when they walk in their homes, they dread seeing their wives. The wife dreads seeing her husband. This even took place during the time of the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam where a woman mentioned that she just is not attracted to him and she fears that she may have a form of ungratefulness to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. And from this hadith, this situation, what took place with this female companion, may Allah be pleased with her, the Prophet salallahu alayhi wasalam legislated what is called khul' or what is called the request to be separated from her husband, divorced from her husband, where he ordered her to give back the mahr or the dowry, which was the garden that was given to her by him. But as was mentioned, for men, what are some things that you, men that are aspiring to
get married, that you should know, and men that are watching and you're probably going through this, we're here to help. With two illustrious individuals, firstly, the one to my right, mashaAllah, brother Faizan Majid, alhamdulillah, mashaAllah, long time friend, alhamdulillah, and he is a therapist, a counselor, and I want to, you know, the words are very important here, and I don't want to make the mistake and feel free to correct me. He's a behavioral therapist and counselor, and you counsel from all ages, correct? Counsel all ages. All ages. So currently counseling in school, mashaAllah, how long have you been doing this? I've been doing it for about four or five years, and I counsel all ages, but it just naturally has become more younger folk, children, because I end up working with quite a few Islamic schools, alhamdulillah. Okay, mashaAllah, mashaAllah, tabarakAllah. He will be our co-host today, and I think this is going to be a phenomenal session, because we have two therapists, but particularly we have our licensed marriage and family therapist, mashaAllah, brother Usman Mughni. He was here last week, alhamdulillah, bil-alameen, and he is going to talk about what all of us are going to talk about. I'm just going to sit back and listen and benefit and get all the food, inshaAllah, as you will consume this, for the sake of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, bi-idhnillah. Brother Usman Mughni is a licensed marriage and family therapist. We are going to talk about today, during marriage, what are those things that potentially can lead to divorce. Now, when talking about this, brothers, particularly during marriage, we hear the term red flags, right? What are those things that you saw before the marriage, and sometimes in your offices, the woman will say, the man will say, that was a red flag, I knew I should have listened to it. I knew I should have followed it, right? Let's start with mentally, psychologically, when the man is in the course of marriage,
whether it's the first month, the first year, the 10th year, I've seen as an imam, the man comes in the office and he's checked out, like mentally checked out. He's smiling, masha'Allah, as-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu, in the masjid, but when he sits in your office, when you get along with him, alhamdulillah, he's able to be vulnerable enough. We're going to talk about that, and he's just not there mentally. He's just there, I'm just providing, I'm not even there mentally. What do y'all have to say about that in regards to not being there mentally for the man? What are some situations that you've seen, and what's some potential advice you can give in that regard? It's not something that happens overnight, right? One statistic that I share, Faisal, I'm sure you're familiar with this, is that on average, couples will go to marriage therapy five to seven years after a problem has been prominent. So if you think about a repeated pattern over and over and over again for five to seven years, that's going to be very difficult to break out of, so that resentment is there, that frustration, and you almost, suadhan at that point, but for them it's like evidence-based suadhan, right? It's like, I know they're going to, because I have it, trust me, brother, I know how she's going to react, trust me, I know how he's going to react. Okay, okay. So having those bad expectations of- Right, right, right, right. There's even this whole idea of getting to a point where you release the person from the role of the villain. You know what I'm saying? Gotten to a point where you expect the absolute worst from them, and when we were talking about the previous stage, while you're looking for somebody, we were talking about this idea of being rigid, having standards, so on, like, yes, it's great to have host suadhan, but don't save her, if you don't hear what I'm saying, don't jump into a situation like that, and so on. Once you're in it, it's different, right? Once you're in it, then that leniency, that flexibility, all of that is there, you know what I'm saying? I see, I see, I see. Now you're not as rigid, right? That's what we're kind of trying to point out initially, right, is that the biggest
prevention of divorce is marrying the person who's right for you in the first place. But, I mean, people are listening and they're like, but it's too late now, right? So now we're going to talk about, like, what, you know, and I think one thing, and we come across this a lot, dude, like, it's, how do I know what's right to get divorced? And that's what people, unfortunately, because we're kind of centering this around divorce, right? Ask yourself, okay, what is my objective when I come into a counselor's office, when I come to an imam's office? Is it reconciliation, or is it some type of validation that, yes, I'm right for asking for a divorce, right? So that's the first thing, what's your intention? And then, you know, based on that, like, we can talk about, maybe I'm jumping ahead of myself, but we can talk about what are some steps, what are some, like, hoops you have to basically jump through before you can say that, okay, as humanly, objectively as possible, I think divorce is the right decision, or I think staying together is the right decision. Okay, so if we were to just, you know, start from how you mentioned, you know, the whole concept in Islam of suullan and husnullan, which is having bad thoughts or good expectations about the person. If we're looking at the husband, for instance, Faizan, the husband, you know, he says, look, it's been five years, we've been married for seven, but the past five years, she's just been vicious, man. And I'm not expecting anything good from her. I'm expecting her to always be jealous. She's a very jealous sister, right? Him walking in, like you mentioned, him walking into the office, and just maybe having the intention just to get validation to do or act the way he is acting. Is that common? I mean, he's saying that it's common. Have you seen that a lot? And what would you particularly advise in that particular situation? You know, SubhanAllah, I think when there's an element of when someone comes into your office, they're coming in with a level of baggage of truths that they think are true,
that they have believed for so long that actually need to be put on trial. They need to be examined, they need to be looked at a little bit more carefully and actually see if this is an actual truth that's in my marriage. And if it is, what is the evidence that I have for that? So say someone comes in, like you mentioned, they have an expectation that my wife is jealous and is always going to be jealous. That second part of the statement, always going to be jealous, right? Is that really the case, or are you reading into things, or are you looking at things a little bit differently? And I think there's an element of work that needs to be done there. If that is true, and if there is evidence, then we obviously take the next steps and look at if there's a possibility for reconciliation. If not, then divorce. Yeah, you know what's important here, man? I just want to interject on that because let's be honest, we're not here to bash men, we're not here to bash women. We're here to tell certain truths or realities with people that this is their profession. So I'm almost about to say take it how you want it, but you mentioned the truths need to be put on trial. I like how you mentioned that because the man may come to the office, and he didn't want to come in the first place, especially a licensed marriage and family therapist. The woman may have brought him there, right? And alhamdulillah, he was man enough, right, to get up and go. But then if his truth is being put on trial, he has to be willing to accept that. You know, it's a level of humility that's needed. Would y'all agree? That's exactly it. Yeah. Absolutely. Right, right. You know, because when he's there, something that he, like you mentioned, I'm so glad you mentioned that, how it's five years in the making, right? How he comes there, and he's expecting his truth to be validated, but all of a sudden he's challenged. And sometimes it's in front of his wife. Sometimes it's in front of his wife because he had these thoughts about her, and he's
being challenged of what he knew was right, right? Particularly in the aspect of respect. Let's move on to respect. Numerous times I heard, she doesn't respect me. What have y'all seen in regards to respect? What I've seen in respect, firstly, she second guesses my decisions. She doesn't listen to me. Right? Do you all hear that constantly from those that may be married in regards to respect? When they say the word respect, what falls under that when they expound upon that particular subject? Right. It depends on the individual. Right? There's one thing, like when it comes to marriage talks and so on, right? I don't like generalizations. Okay. Right? And I get that, like, you know, we can kind of predict, like, for example, oh, women are more emotional, men are more logical, or something like this, right? That pigeonholes us, right? You look at things on an individual basis, right? The Prophet, Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, gave certain advice based on the person, their situation, and so on, right? So I don't know why that gets lost when it comes to mental health, when it comes to relationships, and so on. Then we're okay just generalizing. So what does respect mean? It depends on the person. One person might define respect one way, one person might define respect the other way. Also, you know, what baggage are they coming with, right? So if somebody is feeling that, like, oh, I've always been called irresponsible, or I've always been called, like, that, you know, I don't work hard enough or something by my parents or by my friends or this or that, right? So if that means that any inkling, even if the sister didn't mean, you know, in the wrong way, is going to trigger him, then he's going to consider that disrespectful. So you also have to kind of take a step back and say, you know, look at your own baggage and so on. You know what I'm saying? Like, define it. What does that mean for you? What will make you specifically feel respected? I was going to say, like, that specifically, like, it's so individual. Respect is so individual that you have to, you know, we hear a lot that you need to learn, one of the biggest things that you need to do when you're married is that you need to communicate with each other.
Communication is huge. But I like telling clients, yes, communication is huge, but you need to know what to communicate as well. You need to know yourself to the point where you can communicate. So if respect is something that's incredibly important, what does it mean to you? And that changes the interaction between husband and wife. If you don't know what respect means to you, how are you ever going to be able to communicate it? Exactly. Okay, so this is a little pushback for both of you. I know there's going to be a pushback right now. So if it's individually based, what do we say about the concept of the fitra? So for instance, men are created, what is it, men are from Venus and women are from Mars, right? Can we say that there has to be a level of generalities when it comes to male and female fitra biology, from them being predominantly women are more emotional, which is not a flaw. Right, right, of course. And predominantly men are what, less emotional or more- More stoic, more aggressive. Stoic, yeah. Aggressive, right? Which is not a flaw. It's just as long as it's used and it's proper. So how are we joined between those two? Because when you mentioned respect as well, along with the fitra, along with the natural inclination, we were talking about biology, for lack of better words, which is an aspect of the fitra, cultural nuances, right? What's considered respect, I grew up and this was respect to me. I come home every day, there should be food ready. And if there's not food ready, there's a level of disrespect that I will not tolerate. So how would we reconcile between the fact that it's not cookie cutter, but there is wiggle room or freedom for there to be individualistic considerations when dealing in this particular aspect? Right. I mean, I think part of it is we work on the micro and not the macro, right? So in the therapy office, it's just one-on-one. That's why I don't like those generalizations.
In general, yes, there are, I think, a decent, particularly large sample size of South Asian men, for example, who would just feel elated when their wife shows love and consideration and care to their mom and their sister and their siblings and their father, and that's respect for them. Right. You know what I'm saying, right? Yeah. Are there others who maybe don't care? Yes. My point is, I wouldn't just jump in and assume, because I've gotten pushback, understandably so. We're like, okay, well, why are you assuming? Sometimes the guy will be like, dude, why are you assuming that I'm actually, I can become quite emotional, right? I think there are some generalities there. There are creative differences between men and women, of course. But when they come into the office and when we talk to them, there's a discovery process that has to happen in the beginning where we're understanding what their level of respect is. I think generally speaking, I think there is an element of, we like to come home, and for South Asian men, we like it when our wife looks at us as a leader. And I think that aspect of leader, that needs definition as well. But then that's more individualistic. But if there's a level of looking at the husband as someone who takes the lead, takes the charge, and leads the household, I've seen that a lot. I've seen that a lot with clients, that that's something that can be in that category of being respected by their wife. But see, I don't think that's individualistic though. I think that that's Islamic. Of course. And I mean, even the term of Qawwamah, which seems problematic, and I think it's problematic because of the way it's implemented and because of societal norms that Islam does not accept. So for instance, we in Islam believe the man is the leader. And we believe that in Islam, y'all can, I want to hear what you have to say, in Islam
that the word obedience should not be shied away from. Like, the woman should be obedient to her husband, but then the husband should serve his wife as well. But when we look at the word obedience, we think in Arabic, it's istighfar. It's like worship, or it's that she has no say whatsoever. And that whatever he says, period, cannot be questioned. See, that's where it's a cultural nuance that has kind of overshadowed the Sharia. We see the female companions, many times they will question the Prophet ﷺ. He would mention something, they would question him. And the Prophet ﷺ would answer. So when I think, and that's what I mentioned, I think we in Islam, particularly in this issue of gender relations, we need to own a lot of these terms. So for instance, obedience, service, the man does serve his wife. His protection provision is serving the wife. He should listen to her when she mentions something, because she is the mother of his children. Like, that's a lofty position. Housewife is a word that has been robbed by secularism, by feminism. And I think primarily from the sexual revolution, starting from there in the birth control pill. The housewife is a lofty position in Islam. It's a lofty position. I'd like to hear what y'all have to say, because I think from that, and I think there's I think there's a synergy between what you mentioned, which y'all mentioned, because this therapist, when he comes in and he says, she's not listening to me, oh yeah, that's because he's stoic. Yeah, I understand that that's because men are this. I mean, being a therapist doesn't accept, it's not that simple, right? Is that what y'all are kind of alluding to, that yes, I understand those general nuances that take place with the fitrah and the biology of the men, but I won't allow that to dictate how I, I asked him earlier, is therapize, is that a verb? We can make it a verb, if it makes you happy. It makes me happy, so therapize, I don't want to get y'all in trouble, but.
I was going to mention this idea of how it looks individualistic. You mentioned it in part one, actually, where I think you gave the example of a husband that makes less than his wife, and the wife makes a lot more money, but she's still giving that leadership role to him. So there's a financial difference there, but that leadership role is, so there's a general aspect of leadership, and then the individualist, individual aspect of how it kind of fits into here. Is that the manifestation of individualistic? Yeah, that's kind of what I, and I'll speak on myself, right? I think that, and maybe this is the fitrah, I think part of awama is a hekma in leadership, but also a sense of altruism, right? I think that a good man will be able to look at his wife and kids having fun, maybe just running around on the playground or something like this, knowing that alhamdulillah, I'm able to provide this life for them through halal means, and that's his happiness. He's not asking for anything else back, but that. You know what I'm saying? I don't know if you've ever had those moments where you're just like, what do you mean? What do you mean I have four kids, man? Come on, you're making me emotional. Right, right. But then, you know. Oh, man, that's beautiful. It's part of being a real dad. That's beautiful, man. Yeah. That is beautiful, man. Oh, my God, it's so beautiful. SubhanAllah. Yeah. That's beautiful when you just see your family. Yeah. I remember I was with my father-in-law in Al Medina, and mashallah, I mean, mashallah, may Allah bless him. He has a big family, I'll just leave it at that. He has a big family. So he had like at least 10 grandchildren. No, he has 10 children, and then like about 15 to 20 grandchildren who were all in the room, they're all running around. Like the sisters were outside, but the brothers, so I looked at him, I looked at him, I said, kullu hadha a'shanik. I was like, all of that is because of you. And, you know, as a man, he looked back, he was like,
I was like, mashallah, I was like jealous, but it was just beautiful because you see all of them, you know, nasallahu ala'fi wa'salam, we ask Allah for health. They're all healthy, they're all screaming and running and being troublesome and, you know, knocking over the tea, and it's a beautiful moment. You know, it's a beautiful thing. I'm so glad you mentioned that. I love a loud house, by the way. I love it. It's alive. I love a loud masjid, too. Yeah, yeah, you know, subhanAllah. So, okay, so we talked about during the marriage, okay, you know, mentally, you know, there may be some bad expectations, but it's very important, as you all mentioned, you know, you can't generalize as well. And then the man needs to really take a step back, particularly, and think of what is that su'Allah and husnullah and the bad thoughts that he has, and he has to kind of unpack that, or that's where we all come in, to unpack that, challenging the truth, putting the truth to trial. It's important for men to be humble, and that's a process, and it's a challenge, but Allah subhanAllah, He loves that. Now, during the marriage as well, people come into the office, and, you know, there may have been some expectations on intimacy, right? I'll give one example. Man gets married, and the night of the marriage, I think let's just start the night of the marriage, expectation of the night of the marriage. He has a box. In this box, he opens the box, and it's a tire. I'll just leave it there. It's a certain type of a tire that he's expecting. The sister got scared, right? And he was slightly frustrated. When I'm hearing this, I'm thinking immediately, okay, why is your expectation this immediately? I think it's very important, you know, on the first night, you'll find, because we had another episode, you know, I mean, a lot of our young men, they're watching pornography,
and that pornography sets a certain expectation on the female, and he may not even realize because he's so engulfed in that, and marriage for him was like, all right, now it's on, right? And she's looking at him like he's an animal, and that's a total, I don't wanna use turnoff, but it's just, it's concerning, right? What have y'all seen in regards to that? I mean, like, during the marriage or the first night, what have y'all seen or heard or dealt with in this regard? Right, so, I mean, a few things, right? Like, you mentioned pornography, right? So pornography throws away the entire idea of foreplay, right, and- Can you explain what that is for? Yeah, foreplay, you know, leading up to just penetration, right? When people watch pornography, they skip scenes, and they skip to, like, that's not how intimacy works. There's a warm-up period. There's like, you know, biologically, there's a difference in how quickly a man gets aroused versus how quickly a woman gets aroused, right? And, you know, you're talking about communication. That's something that has to be communicated, and we shouldn't be shy, like, first to talk about it, like, just in general, right? There has to be a great, like, sex education curriculum. One of my friends, I don't know, Habib Akindi, and he talks quite a bit about that. He brings it back to different, you know, examples, like works of Ibn Hazm, or Himmullah, and so on, and- And Siyuti, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, right? So, you know, communicating and learning that process, right, I've seen, so I don't have any statistics compared to, like, previous, but I have seen cases of vaginosis, like, where, you're familiar with this, right? Like, where the female will have pain during penetration, and there's no other medical reason for it, and so there's physical therapy, and so on, that helps with that, right? But then, like, you know, the guy knowing that, okay, this does exist, right? And there's no way for the girl to know that beforehand, right, for the virgin, right?
So, you know, being open to having these type of conversations, and so on, right? And like, even as we're talking about this right now, like, I'm like, oh, this is an Islamic show, I'm saying the word penetrate, why is that weird for me to say? You get what I'm saying? Like, that's a problem. That's the problem. Right. That is the problem. And Islam does call for you to be, for lack of better words, mature. Yeah. You know, especially for men, because if they're going to be the leaders, they have to be mature, and know how to deal with these situations. Like you mentioned, if it may have been painful, he may think he's doing a great thing because of? Production. Exactly. Right. I'm so glad you mentioned that, you know, with the foreplay. And make no mistake, I mean, this was in the time of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam in different ways, you know? Yeah. The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam was kissing there, and the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, even with Aisha, you know, she would pass the cup, and he would turn the cup to where he drank, and drank from there. That's a form of romance. I mean, romance is something that is very, much, very important. Right. Many Sunnah of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam for young men to understand, and like you're saying, the skipping, the foreplay, that's from Allah, so we kind of went through that. Right, right. And, you know, as a man, there's a pride that you have in that, in that you're able to please your spouse in that manner. Right. Right? Not just relieve yourself, but please your spouse. Like there's, you feel better. You should feel better. Exactly. Right? Exactly. And that's completely antithetical to like, what pornography teaches. Exactly. SubhanAllah. On the marriage night, there's an expectation of bliss from the guy, and an expectation of fear from the woman. Have you found that as well? I mean, that's what leads sometimes to bad menaces, right? Like, yeah, like it's true. Sometimes, yes, that is tense. Yeah. Yeah, and just the mismatch between the two. Right. That leads to a lot of problems that could come. Right, right. No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And that will help foster a sense of safety. Right. And you know, and that's, you know, like, okay, we'll get very explicit here since we, you know, when you're communicating, you can talk during sex, right? Yes. Okay, how does this feel? How does this not feel? It's not going to be perfect the first night. Guys who are virgins, girls who are virgins, it's not going to be,
it's supposed to get better over time, but you learn about each other. You learn about each other's bodies. Together. Together. Yeah. Right? Do you like this? Do you not like this? You know, ask questions and then go through it. There's a growth process. There's a growth process, exactly. So that expectation that it's going to be fireworks the first night. Then I'm asked this question. Does there have to be sex the first night? A few couples delay consummation, right? So there's, you know, you know, there's foreplay, there's all of this, but then they delay penetration. She says, I'm just not ready. You know, she's not ready. Right, yeah. Right, right. I've seen that situation as well, because a brother, I remember one brother told me, he said, yo, we just talked the whole night till fudging. And the brothers were like, what? I'm like, what's wrong with that? If he's okay with it, right? I mean, he was mentioning it like, he was mentioning like, you know, it was beautiful, actually, I just remember what he said. He said, yo, we talked the whole night. Some brothers were like, what? Kaif. He was like, I didn't even think about, like our conversation was so good, we were laughing, and then the event of fudging went off. SubhanAllah. You know, and it was a beautiful moment. And then she felt safe. She told him later, she felt safe after that to be attracted. I bet your future intimacy was fireworks for them because they made that emotional connection, because they talked, they communicated. Yeah. SubhanAllah. I think that, like, that's it, like that element of making her feel safe. And then that's all foreplay as well. Building that emotional connection. That's all there. Like, it doesn't have to be in specific kisses or things like that. It could just be talking all night. Right, right. So foreplay is not just physical. Exactly. Just physical. Exactly. All those, the senses, you know, you mentioned earlier, like, what does it attract? Again, you know, the smells, you know, for men, it's like kind of what they see, you know, these things that can bring form of arousal. The man, if he really wants to take that role of qawamah and leadership, he has to be the one that, you know, the foreplay for him, it may be much quicker for him where he gets aroused and wants to be with her, but for her, it takes time. And that's not, that is not a flaw in her. That is how Allah SubhanAllah has created her.
You know, that he has to be some, have a level of charisma. Yeah. Have a level of charisma when talking to her. Okay, so great first night, you know, things are working out. She's complaining that I'm not the guy that I used to be. Right? I don't, I walk around the house with, they call it the bunyan, there's a group here, it's called bunyans. When they gave me the third grade, my master, I call it, ka'an hum bunyan hum mursus. It's in the Quran, so it's soft. Like, they are a strong foundation, but y'all laughed, y'all. We already knew, because my son, my son asked that same question. He's like, and I literally, on that verse, right? He's like, why they say bunyan? Can you share with the audience what a bunyan is? Like, it's like, it's like a wife beating. Don't say that word. Don't say that word. I was hoping you would say that, bro. No, no, that's, that's all I'm about. No, edit that out, man. No, undershirt, man. How else can we describe it? A tank top undershirt. Tank top undershirt, tank top undershirt. Okay, that works. No, but like bunyan doesn't, it can be half sleeve as well. It doesn't have to be tank top. Oh, really? It's basically undershirt. It's just an undershirt. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But mostly it is the tank top version. So the guy walks around in his bunyan. Bunyan? Bunyan. Bunyan with mud, okay. Yeah, there's a mud, there's a mud. He walks around with his bunyan. Six haraka. She's not attracted to him, and she doesn't tell him why. You know what, she may not even know why she's not attracted to him. Have y'all run into cases to where, the woman says, I just am not attracted to him anymore. And through therapy, you find out it's because of the way he takes care of himself. Is that common? Is that something that you have seen? I think we spoke about this earlier, like the idea of attraction. Attraction is something, there's an element of it that is static,
meaning I am attracted to a person or I'm not. But there's an element of it that's also dynamic, that needs to be worked on. There's a verb aspect to it. You need to put in the work, you need to put in the effort. And even if they're not able to articulate it, I think both sides, like man and woman, they need to understand that once you're married, the work's not done. You gotta start. There's a whole different level of work that starts to maintain and grow that attraction. Because attraction can grow after marriage. Okay, okay, let's start, okay. Attraction can grow, it's not static. There's an element of it that is not static. There's an element of it that's dynamic. It reminds me of a time I was in the gym and I saw a brother, he's like, yeah, I'm about to get married. I said, so you're in the gym because you're about to get married? He's like, yeah. I said, well, it doesn't stop there, bro. You know what I'm saying? Because when you get married, she's gonna make a lot of food for you. She likes to make food. And it's gonna, you know, that beer belly's gonna, that belly, that beer belly's stuck for a while, that basbousa belly or the baklava belly is going to protrude, or it may come out in other places that may cause you to buy bigger sizes of pants or maybe shirts. And she may not like that, man. So, you know, during the marriage, you mentioned the attraction. So the man has to work on himself, I guess, physically. Does that lessen the attraction if he's not keeping himself upkept? I mean, even outside of the belly. Yeah, yeah. It's just the way you dress clean. It works both ways, right? Right. Our parents' generation, I feel like they, you've seen uncles, right? You're not gonna see most uncles in sweatpants and a T-shirt. Yeah. Right? They do it right, you know? It's a butt down, nice shirt. You know what I'm talking about? Even the older uncles, mashallah, it's always a dress shirt, pants. There's just something dignified. They'll go to Walmart and wear that, you know? Okay. You're not gonna see them in flip-flops and this and that. It's always like, so there's the, you know what I'm saying, right? I was gonna say, like, my dad, mashallah. I was thinking about my dad, too, yeah. Every time he goes out, like he could be going out to CVS,
which is down the street, to get something for my mom. Mashallah. He'll put on a dress shirt, dress pants, look all nice, cologne, everything, and then go out and then be back in five minutes and then he's done. What does that signify, though? What does that signify? Takes care of his family. What are y'all telling us? He takes care. He has a level of dignity in him that pushes him to look a certain way, behave a certain way, especially in front of his wife, my mom. Right. So he wants her to see that, okay, even if I'm going out just to get you something small for five minutes, I'm doing it with Ihsan in the best possible way. So I've seen that, and I love that. Yeah, great, great. It's something that, like, our generation, younger generation, can take from and learn from that and implement that as well, inshallah. That's very interesting. That's very interesting, mashallah. So being upkept, even, you know, in the house, you know, subhanAllah. Allah, jameel, yuhibbul jamaal. Right. You know, he loves beauty. Mashallah, tabarakallah. So, okay, so during the marriage, so keeping up, staying upkept with yourself, you know, making sure you're looking clean, even when you're in the house, even around your wife, because the attraction is not static, it can grow even within the marriage, right? What about with the character of the husband? What are some things that will make him more attractive or that can lessen the attraction? And there's one word I want to use here, resentment. What are some of the things that can cause the wife to resent him during the marriage that he wasn't doing from before? Like when they first got married, it was great, but now that he's married, he's been lackadaisical. We talked about cleanliness, we talked about is he fit, but what about with his character? What are some things that you have seen? What would you advise in this regard? Rigidity. Rigidity, okay, being rough. Yeah, being rough and flexible, right? Lack of willingness to understand. You know, you've seen this like, not just in marriage therapy, but like, you know, with kids, with teenagers, with your students, right? We all desire to be understood.
You don't have to agree with me, just understand me. That's across the board, right? Very basic principle in relationships in general, in order to be understood, in order to receive understanding, excuse me, in order to receive understanding, you have to give understanding. And when the person knows that you're willing to have that husna dhan, and like, okay, I don't fully get it, but I'm willing to understand why this bothers you. I might not even agree with you 100%, but I'm willing to understand what bothers you about this, right? And the more you see that flexibility in me, the more you're willing to give it back. Okay, okay, okay. And, you know, it goes along with like healthy communication. So this is one thing that I teach a lot in premarital counseling, but it comes up quite a bit in marriage counseling. People fall into two general categories when it comes to dealing with upset feelings, right? You're either a problem-solving first person or an understanding first person. So let me define that real quick. So a problem-solving first person, the way their nervous system is wired is when they are frustrated, when they, like, you lose your job, you get into a fight with a family member, you know, you feel a certain way, what calms me down is solutions, right? I don't really need a pat on the back, but I need to know, okay, what are the next steps? How do we, you know, get out of this? Like, do I have to go on LinkedIn? Do I have to do this? Do I have to do that, right? What are we gonna do differently moving forward? Understanding first people, they're also very rational, reasonable, so on, or willing to be that way, but they first need to be understood. They need to be heard. Right, to be heard. I'll give you a very personal example. So I was a single dad for a number of years, right? And so I remember a Desi kid, always, we would always struggle with, like, food, and, like, for some reason, like, you know, our kids are generally, like, smaller, right? Yeah, and so, like, you know, my son's giving me all this trouble about eating, and I'm, like, going around, like, trying to, like, you know, God, he's underweight, so on, and so I asked my best friend, I was like, man, what do you do that I'm not doing? And so on, I'm just, like, venting, and, because I'm very much an understanding first person.
All he said to me was, Osman, your situation is tough. I started tearing up. Where's the solution in that? No solution in that. How many times do our spouses just need to hear that? Like, man, that was rough. Like, okay, my mom spoke to you that way? Damn it, that shouldn't have happened, you know? I'm really sorry that happened. I'm not gonna sit there and explain, no, no, no, but she meant this, and she meant that, and you're just a bad person for misunderstanding it, right? I'm not gonna lose anything by just saying, I'm sorry that happened, you know? Like, that meant that I felt like a mountain lifted off my shoulders. The next day, I looked up a dietician. I felt so much more in control. In control? Yeah. Because of that empathy? Exactly. Wow, subhanAllah, amazing, amazing, amazing. That's something lacking a lot in, I mean, now I'm generalizing, right, but that is lacking in brothers sometimes, where, you know, they say, like, well, you know, all she wants to do is complain, and so on, right? Okay, okay. Maybe she's looking for that understanding, and once she gets it, like, and it's not expensive to give, right? Right, right. Things seem to resolve themselves relatively quickly. So during marriage, wife comes home, she's complaining, and I'm not using this word complaining to shun sisters, but she's venting, right, about something or someone or something. Even certain scholars mention that it's not truly considered ghibah, backbiting, if you are venting to someone that can help. So when the wife comes home and talks about what happened at work with a couple of sisters, you're saying in this particular situation, if he's an understanding first person, or to be an understanding first person, is just to sit and to listen, and to maybe say, I understand. No, like, to try and understand, right? To try and, you know, I don't have to fully agree with you, but I'm acknowledging your validity, like, you're not crazy. There are other normal, sane, rational human beings who would be just as upset as you.
I might not be one of them, but there are other people who are there, so you're not crazy for the way you're feeling. Right, so to, I mean, things to say, because some guys wouldn't know what to say. They probably try to work, like, I want to say this, but I know she doesn't want a solution. So things that they should say is like, I get it, I understand. Oh, wow. Maybe not I get it, I understand, because you don't know where that's going, right? Where's it going? I was going to say, like, tag. What does he say? You know, because a lot of guys, they want to solve the problem, right? And, you know, sometimes it's happened, like, I don't want you to solve my problem. Just want you to listen. I'm just going to be quiet. Didn't you come up with some advice? I'm your husband. I'm supposed to solve the problem, so I'm the leader. They're literally listening, like, they're thinking, man, marriage is hard. I don't want to do this anymore. It does take effort. It does take effort, but like, man, once you got it down, there's nothing more beautiful in the world than that. So it takes effort to be quiet. It takes effort to, like, hold down your ego, but- Hold down your ego. You're right. The understanding person first, I can see it as they're the one who's in the situation, in the problem, in the difficulty, and they're venting, or they need some company in the dark place that they're in. That's what it is. They want some company in that area that they're in, that difficulty, and they want someone to understand that, okay, I'm in this area, I'm in this place, and just understand that I'm not alone in this. And if someone just comes in and says exactly that, like, I get it, this is tough, you have the company in that place, and you feel like you're not alone. And I think understanding as a vast generalization, generally, it's women that are more understanding first, very generally speaking. And if a husband can come in and just try to put himself to where she is, and understand how she is feeling, and verbalize that back, a lot of times that's enough. What do you think about that? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. 100%, it's...
And people who pride themselves on logic, right? If that is the thing that's gonna get the results fastest, then do that, you know? That's the more logical thing. It can still be as manly, so I'm gonna say that, but yeah. No, no, seriously, it's like, if you're a logical person, then learn to speak her language. That's the more logical thing, instead of just pushing back and trying to bend that rib, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. I was gonna hold on. You see, I have to mention the Hadith, the Prophet's, it's a beautiful Hadith that you mentioned. You know, the Prophet, peace be upon him, he said, in the Mar'a Khulqat Min Dhul'i Adam, that the woman was created from the rib of Adam. And then he says something so beautiful, he said, if you were to strike, to straighten it out, you would break it. You would break her. So don't try to straighten her out and change who she is, because you would verily break her, just like you tried to straighten out a rib. It's not, it's impossible. You can't do that. So with the fitra and the way that she is, you know, don't try to make her solve the problems your way, as you mentioned. I think, is that a process to learn? Because the other first person, is there a role? Does that have validity in a relationship as well? You said there's the understanding first person, and the- Problem-solving first person, right? So this is based on a theory that actually my professors back in grad school came up with. It's called pragmatic experiential therapy for couples. I like it because it's one of those, it's like cognitive behavioral therapy. It's easy to teach. It's easy to learn. It's very evidence-based. So it's backed by findings in neuroscience and so on, right? But the idea is that the overwhelming majority of arguments, and I'm not talking about major things like infidelity and abuse and all of this, but the overwhelming majority of arguments are because of an incongruence between what he calls core differences, right? I like to be shown affection one way, she likes to be shown affection another way. I like to let out my frustrations one way, she likes to be let, you know, and so when these two things collide, that's when you have arguments. An extreme extrovert and extreme introvert. Like, you know, the differences exacerbate themselves.
Mm, absolutely. So it's like, is it better to be understanding first or problem-solving first? No, both are. It's as arbitrary as chocolate versus vanilla ice cream, right? They're both good. So it's best to observe your spouse throughout the relationship and seeing. I think, so it's a tool, actually, I do a lot in premarital counseling. I actually have couples like go through this and kind of understand that and be like, oh, wow, I never really, you know, categorized myself in that way, but you know what, I do lean more towards this and that. And so now you know how the other person is. You've asked some very meaningful questions, right? And you don't have to, you know, only do it in premarital counseling, like even while you're married, even if you've been married 20 years, right? I think, you know, somebody could still learn this about their spouse. It's called core differences. You learn about your spouse in that way. You know, are they future-oriented versus like, you know, in the moment and so on. And then their actions make a little bit more sense. Right, yeah. What's your take on the five love languages? Okay, I did a workshop with Cheikh Yasser on this. Five love languages is a book. It's a well-known book translated in many languages. So I think it has some type of, some kind of relevance to what he's talking about now. Yeah, sure, sure. Dr. Gary Chapman, right? So, I don't know if he's like a hardcore Baptist or something, but like he marketed that a lot, a lot. I think it's a very simplified concept that he did a great job marketing. It's not limited to five love languages. You know, that's one thing. Because sometimes people will look at that and there's research on this. Like people will look at the five love languages and say like, oh, but I actually like to be loved in this way and this way. Going back to the idea of like, especially the South Asian guys, right? I like to be loved by, I love my family. And what is a love language to me is my wife showing respect to my family. That's not one of the five love languages, but it's important to me, right? So research has found there's several other love languages out there, right? So that's one thing. It's a good start, right? It's the idea of just, I think it falls back into communication. It's like really getting to know what makes your partner smile, what brings them comfort,
and then doing the same for you. So you've been asking the question, what makes you this? What makes you that? Did you like this? Did you like that? In times of ease and not at times of hardship. Okay. And it can change, by the way. Sometimes guys get frustrated. They're like, no, but she said she likes gifts and now she doesn't like it. Okay, it's fine. People grow, people change, you know? When looking at, you talk about observing the family, asking questions, knowing yourself and understanding your flaws. And again, it really takes a guy to be humble because him being vulnerable by acknowledging that he doesn't know something, just like you said, the ego, that can play a huge role because sometimes they, okay, if she sees that I don't know this, she may, it may not be attractive or I may not be looked at as the man of the house or whatever the case may be. Seeing men come to your office, okay? And they had a lot of stress built up, maybe have been suicidal, okay? And you were the first person that they talked to and they had to gather up a lot of, I'll use the word humility to come to, it took a number of years, right? For them to do that. Point that I'm really getting to is, I'll start with this story. I received a text from a brother and this is not a brother, it's brothers. And when I read this text, it was a sign of him reaching out and me reading the text in the way that he wrote it, was like, wow, that means this brother reached out, this brother reached out, this. So I called one of the previous brothers. I was like, man, were you? He said, yeah, man, I was really going through it. I was really going through it. So I wanna talk to you two brothers about particularly two aspects of reaching out with men.
The first one is the brother that found it within himself to send a text and it was vague. Sounded like, brother, what are you doing? How's everything going? Just haven't talked to you in a while. Just over here by myself. Send. It's a message of like, I need some companionship. I really wanna talk. I'm going through hell right now. I just got a divorce. I'm on the verge of getting a divorce, right? We're gonna get to the second brother, but the first brother is a brother that reaches out. What would you say to this brother that has reached out and he did not get a response, okay? The brother that reaches out and did not get a response, what would you tell them? Because when he doesn't get that response, Shaitan can play with him like, look, I tried, let's just go back and just deal with it. And some of them, they'll go to drinking, go to joy. Not all of them. They'll go to someone or something to fill that pain in that void, right? What would you tell that brother? You know, I think there's an element of strength that is taken in order to be able to reach out. But strength shows actually how strong it is when it's challenged. And if you reach out to someone and they don't respond back, it's a challenge to that strength that it took to reach out, that it took to actually put yourself out there and be vulnerable. So because someone didn't respond, that doesn't mean that you just falter and break down and that's it, you don't go back and reach out again. I think you have to find someone else. And I know that's tough. And first off, I think like there's an element of mashallah, may Allah reward the brother for reaching out, because it's not easy to do that. It's not easy to do that. But you may have to reach out to another person, until you get a response. And I know that puts the onus on the brother,
but that strength of reaching out will be challenged. And that challenge may come in the aspect of not receiving a response from the first person or the second person. But I also think there's an element of, like Allah says that there's no burden that a person, Allah doesn't burden a soul with more than it can bear. So the process of reaching out is a burden, is difficult, but it is also something that you can bear as well. Right, right. Man, now you're going to get me emotional, because it's been a tough week, subhanAllah. We need to do a better job as men. Reaching out to each other, loving each other, checking up on each other. Two people very close to me are going through a difficult time right now, and I, I just, I feel bad that like, why didn't I check up enough? And we're subtle, we're subtle in the signs that we're going through pain, right? We need to step up as brothers, right? My wife told me this, she's like, honestly, I feel like men don't know men. Like, yeah, I will, I'll know how much you bench before I know your pain points and what you're going through and that difficulty. How much you bench? I'm just. Or the reason why I bench, right? The reason why you bench, yeah. To just to let that frustration out. When I got my divorce, Sheikh Yasser told me two things, right, and may Allah bless him, right? He said, he said, stay with the community. Keep, no matter what, right? Stay with the community and hit the gym. Essentially, do you even lift? I was like, I said, okay. I, we'll talk about this maybe in the divorce episode, but there were times you're talking about strength and pushing through. Between reps, man, I was tearing up. Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I was just like hiding my tears. Oh yeah. And then I'd go on to the next rep. I had to push through that. Allah, I love it. Some of my best friends don't know this. I'm a therapist.
I'm encouraging, you know, my wife knows this, right? Other family members might know this. My brother knows this. My best friends don't know. Why is that? Why don't we share with each other, man? We're struggling. It's part of it. We're in pain. Yeah. And, you know, you deprive. Yes, there's a strength in reaching out, but you're also, subhanAllah, like when you don't, you're also depriving the other person of ajr. Right? Yeah. Reaching out doesn't necessarily mean checking up on them and talking to them specifically about whatever it is that they're going through. It could be just like this. You get together, you have some laughs, you talk, enjoy some food, and you'll be surprised at how many times, like guys just getting together for something as simple as playing games, some kind of game, competitive nature, even just lifting together, and then it comes out. Yeah, man. And then the pain points start coming out, but it's just creating that opportunity for that to come out, whether it's eating together, whether it's working out together, gaming together in terms of competitive games or something like that, or even just sitting together and talking like this. It allows for that opportunity for those pain points to come out. If I text either of you guys ever that, hey, if you're free, let's toss a football around, that means it's up to here, and I need to let it, I keep a football in the car. Yes, subhanAllah. And we don't even have to talk. I just need to launch that thing. I need to throw a football back and forth for a bit. And yeah. Yeah, and that's what I was gonna get to. Y'all kind of touched on it already, but the person that receives the text, like just you mentioned, let's just get, I don't wanna ask what kind of texts are there, but what could be, and you may not have an answer for this, but what could be a sign from the receiver that he can see, okay, oh, okay, this brother's kind of reaching out. The fact that a text came is enough.
Yeah. Okay. The fact that a text came is enough. Especially if it's brothers that you haven't heard from in a while, they reach out to you. It doesn't matter what's being said. The fact that they sent you a text message is enough. Hmm, subhanAllah. And that's on you to maybe explore a little bit more. Pick up the phone and call them. How's everything going? Exactly. And that's, I think, just the behavior. The behavior has shifted. And that's one thing that we look for in the office. If behavior is shifting and if a brother that hasn't texted you in a while is reaching out to you, that's enough of a sign to pick up the phone and check on. There was a situation where a client had reached out to their therapist and it was just a very vague email at like an odd time. The therapist just, subhanAllah, happened to be, and I've heard the story personally, happened to just be looking at their email and they were able to just read, okay, something is off. Email, he called the client. Client was very, just kind of incoherent. Called 911. Police had to break through the door. She had overdosed. Had he not checked that email. QadrAllahu ma sha'a fa'ad. SubhanAllah. But like you said, just a text, you know? And it doesn't have to be as deep as suicide, but it's just the idea of, and we don't even, honestly, dude, we don't have to wait for things to build up, right? Sheikh Yasser was talking about this and we need to revive this idea, the sunnah of basically, I'm driving past your house and I'm like, yo, let's just, let's chop it up a little bit. Let's have some tea, something. Make it super simple, right? I'm more and more interested now in the idea of community and the importance of community and sohbah, especially brotherhood, as a preventative factor in mental health issues. And I'm seeing it more and more.
And I know this is your thing, dude. Yeah, and it's growing. The whole concept of community, even on the online sector of like cohorts and learning, it's starting to become a thing as well, just though, because, you know, we're insan, we're social creatures, you know? And subhanAllah, you know, in an individualistic society that is pushing more towards, you know, that social touch, being in together, you know, in person offline is crucial. And don't you think that that strength, you know, that brotherhood, that community where we have those outlets leads to healthier marriages? Oh, no doubt about it, brother. The gym is, I mean, physical exertion. Doesn't have to be the gym inside a wall, outside getting a slam ball. Like I have this circuit training I do with brothers. It's a bucket and a slam ball. You get a bucket if you can't squat because you used to be on the computer. At least get down to the bucket, come right back up, get the ball and slam it. Like that'll release a lot of stress, inshaAllah, Tala. So to the last type of brother, you mentioned it earlier. But by the way, like, because I want to say, because I also just caught myself, I mentioned just throwing the footballs enough. That's the beginning. Talk about it too. But like, that's an entry point. Because I feel like you're gonna be like, you know, what are you teaching people? You're just like, throw footballs? So we don't talk about our problems? No, open up. Like we need to do better with that too. We need to be comfortable with those tough conversations. I strive to have friends who will call me out when I'm in the wrong. And that's the other thing too, subhanAllah. Be willing to call your friends out. That's what a friend is, subhanAllah. Yeah, brothers, if your friend is like abusive towards their family, be that good friend. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, we got to touch on that, Sheikh. I mean, sister reaches out to you, the wife of your best friend or friend, and she says, this is going on. What do you advise a friend that gets that call? Like, bro, are you really doing this? Because this is during the marriage and the man is, he's fallen short. You know, it happens. He's stressed out. You know, he's going through things. Family member may have passed away. There's been a level of resentment.
And he's releasing his stress out in that way, physically abusing his wife, which is, you know, totally haram in Islam. Right, and we're not condoning it. Yeah, we're not condoning it. No, that's haram. You're responsible for your hands. Yeah, you're responsible. Of course, no, that's not allowed in any shape, form, or fashion, or incident at all. What would you advise a friend that receives that phone call from the wife, from his friend's wife, that he's been domestically abusing her? That's tough. And this is a message to the brothers that are currently doing it. I mean, you know, there's a level of sympathy for your problem that led you to do it, but doing it is impermissible. It's not allowed in Islam. And she is someone that is, as Apostle Sam said, you know, inni uharruju ala al-da'ifayna shadda ala al-da'ifayna or, as Apostle Sam said, verily, I am very diligent over the protection of the two weak ones, the orphan and the woman, right? And their weakness is a beautiful thing. It is not a flaw. It is a weakness Allah Almighty has created them with, being that they may be generally, speaking weaker than, that of the male in regards to physical aggression that talked about. When the woman calls and she's reaching out, and a lot of times they feel that they're in jail because there was one time, subhanAllah, the brother threatened her that if you say anything, right, it's going to be worse. And mind you, this is her first husband. He took her, that's what I told brothers all the time. Like this is, the Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, forget me. The Prophet, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, when he talked about Zina, he said, would you, atardha hadha li ummik, atardha hadha li uqtik, atardha, would you like that to happen to your mother? Would you like that to happen to your sister? Would you like that to happen to, and he went down the line, mother, aunt, sister, in the hadith. So that is someone's daughter you are taking away from the house. And then for you to verbally abuse her, verbally abuse her, and then physically abuse her. Is it fair for me to say, and I'm using the epitome of words here,
to risk your friendship by advising that brother and telling him, look, bro, you need to stop. Like, what would you all say in this regard? What's the method, what's the process he should take when he receives that call? I need a hujjah in front of Allah that I spoke up and spoke up for justice and truth, right? That's being a good friend, right? It's on the other person, whether they listen or not, but I have to speak up, right? And I understand you have to use hikmah and so on, but honestly, in that type of situation, we're not vocal enough as brothers. We're not, you know? There's a case where a very educated lady got her jaw dislocated because the guy grabbed her hard and was trying to make her understand something and she wasn't paying attention, you know? Dislocated her jaw, right? We need to be tough on this. We need to speak up as men, right? It's not a man who can't control his temper in that manner. Right, and that's why you need caves. This is why you need caves. For some people, it's the barbershop. For some people, it's the gym. For some people, it's just the living room or the garage. I forgot, I was reading an article and they were talking about how, I think it was the book, Men on Strike, talking about why men do not get married. There were some valid points in there. There was one chapter where they were talking about the man cave and how the man cave is a sign of emasculating him because he can't have any habitat in the house, so he has to go to the basement or the garage. I beg to differ with that. I mean, the man wants that. He wants that place. He just wants a place of isolation where he can just hang out, put his feet out and drink some water, not beer, drink some water. I like your garage, my friend, that's what I said. But yeah, it's a place where you can hang out,
talk junk, laugh, make fun of each other, what they call roasting each other now or copying or whatever the case may be. The companions used to do that, Brother Laman, in the midst of all of that, just that laughter. There's been numerous times where I've been in situations like that and you're laughing, but then when you're walking to your car about to leave, the brother comes to you. Because I'm like the imam, so they're like, Sherry, I just wanna talk to you about something. We were together for three hours, three hours. And he found it within himself from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and his strength and humility that he was able to come to me and say, you know what, what's going on? Just the wife, man. One time I asked the brother, SubhanAllah, how's everything going? And he just, boom, just started. I'm getting a divorce, man. I don't know what's going on. I'm just getting a divorce. And then boom, just, I said, let's go over here. Because probably nobody asked him that. Because we're talking about this idea of altruism and qawwamah and so on, but that also means that for a lot of us that we put ourselves last. We take care of ours. We take care of our family. We work hard, and we have pride in that. But then there's that buildup, right? And when's the last time you asked one of your friends, how are you holding up, man? How are you doing? Not just how's your job, but how are you doing? Yeah, exactly, man, exactly. That's so important. Just to, you know, as far as I know, he has on his calendar, it's the Uhuwa calls. On his calendar, Uhuwa calls, you know? And I love how you mentioned that. We don't have enough time, but I think it's really good for the sisters and the wives to hear as well. The men are complaining when they come last in the house. Right? It's just like you said, he finds pride. We have pride in doing that, but we're human as well. And sometimes the wife may ask, but there's nothing like the brother coming and asking,
how's everything going? Not everything's going, no, no. How's everything going, man? Boom. It's like, boom, you know? So I'm so glad you mentioned that. Brothers, sisters, you know, may Allah bless you all for tuning in. This is a great session as all of them are great. Alhamdulillah. What are some of the things that the man should be aware of during marriage, some signs that can lead to, you know, it's something that they should be aware of. It could be red flags or red lines, but most importantly, I think from what we just talked about in conclusion, establish your iman cave, right? Have a place where you can sit and talk five minutes, 50 minutes. You can just talk over food, over a dumbbell, barbell, out just in the park, walking, you know, where you can just get with men that have the same mindset or your friends or any mam or someone that you can talk to, because it sounds very simple, like it has no effect. But as you can see here with two therapists, mashallah, tabatakallah, that there's a huge effect in that companionship. You know, may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless both of you for tuning in, for coming here and enlightening me and enlightening everyone else, mashallah, in this beautiful, beautiful segment that we have of, you know, of talking about divorce problem or solution. May Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala bless all of you viewers. And please, we're reading the comments. May Allah bless you all for your comments, for your insight, you know, and if you have any suggestions, we're not perfect. And we didn't mention everything. We weren't planning to mention everything, but just some of the milestones that take place. And we're asking Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala to accept it from us and to accept it from you for watching. Barakallahu feekum. Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
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