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Arrested for What!? | Iman Cave
How far would you go for the greater good, knowing that it would affect your future? When university alumni Kamran and Ayman Kazmi went to protest and call for divestment on the University of Texas campus in Dallas, they understood the risks, but they understood the importance of the moment. As a result, they were arrested and jailed, but carry it as a badge of honor.
The brothers join Sh. Abdullah Oduro and cohost Yahya Talib in the Iman Cave to discuss the importance of contribution, rites of passage, the teachings of their Qur’an teacher, and the keys to keeping momentum.
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. When you're a Muslim, and you're in a Muslim household, in a Muslim family, in a Muslim community, you're like, other people will take care of my deen for me, you know. You see all these things, and as a person, you're like, man, I wish I would be a part of this. I wish I would be that type of person. And then the opportunity comes. UTD, I'm an alumni. My money is going to fund genocidal companies that are making the bombs that are being dropped in Rafa right now. And we're like, we're not going to take part in this. Then we see the state troopers pull up. I'm police department, by the way. And they're like, we're in a position where they're coming down towards us, right? And it's like, all of a sudden, things just become real. And they create a circle in the middle of the encampment. They're like, you know what, they can take us, but we're not leaving. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. How's everyone doing? I'm Abdullah Oduro, and welcome to the Iman Cave, where we discuss issues of male excellence while being grounded in faith. Contribution. Is that a male characteristic? Is it something that's universal? Is it something that even matters in the life of a young man, of a father, of a son, of a citizen? Why is it important for the man to contribute? And when I talk about contribute, I'm not only talking about contribution to the family, that's a given. I'm talking about contributing to people that you don't even know. As a matter of fact, in Islam, that is a characteristic of the righteous. In the chapter of Mankind, Al-Insan, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala talks about the Al-Abrar. He talks about the righteous people. And one of the characteristics is he says, After I seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Satan, that those they give to the poor and they feed them,
the one that is poor and destitute and doesn't have anything. And then what do they say? That verily, that verily, we feed you for the face of Allah, for the sake of God. We do not want from you no jaza and no reward and no thanks, meaning that that is not the reason we do it. It is something much more transcended. And that's what we spoke about before, that the purpose of life is to worship Allah in the different avenues that he has put in front of you with the faculties that he has given you. And for you as a young man, for you as a son, for you as a brother, as a father, grandfather, it's very important that you play your part in contributing to society. That's what we're going to talk about inshallah, but I cannot do it except with the help of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and my man to my right, Yahya Talib, alhamdulillah, mechanical engineer and his last name Talib means student, and he is a student of life. You will see, mashallah, he has very, very good, deep, introspective questions for himself to learn about the subject matter of contribution in particular. And who are we going to talk about it today in the Iman cave? We have none other but the Cosme brothers. We have brother Kamran Cosme. And we have brother Ayman Cosme. And as our new method that we will be practicing inshallah, starting today, or we did before, mashallah, that each guest will come with a souvenir that coincides with the message, the theme of what we're going to talk about tonight. So they have a souvenir that you're going to leave here, right? Okay, so what is this? What is this? These are our badges of honor.
This is our inmate identification card that we received from the Klan County Jail. Oh, sorry. You said it very quickly. You can't just throw it. I'm sorry. You received it from the what? The Klan County Detention Facility, the McKinney Jail, after we were arrested on May 1st for protesting for Palestine. Okay. Okay, stop there. So you're currently, so that's not a school ID. This is not a school ID, not. Let me see, let me check it out. Okay, let me see here. It almost looks like the Klan County Jail. This is a mugshot. One brother is smiling and one brother is not. Okay, this is interesting. It's a mugshot, in other words. Alhamdulillah, they said it's a souvenir because it is a memory. And I think it's a good memory, to be honest, as he called it a badge of honor. It is a badge of honor. We're going to talk about the protests that happened on May 1st at the University of Texas, Dallas. Are you currently students at UTD? We're alumni. Alumni. So there was a protest at University of Texas, Dallas on May 1st, 2024, in protesting for our brothers and sisters in Gaza for numerous reasons. Very organized, mashallah to barakallah. I was there. And then when I arrived there, I was told that it was moved to the McKinney Detention Center in which they were in and we were outside protesting. We're going to talk about that, inshallah. But firstly, let's just get a brief background of you beautiful brothers, alhamdulillah. So where were you, where are you from? Where did you, were you born? Where did you grow up? We were born in Portland, Oregon. Our heritage, you know, our family's from India. We grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, you know, so that's where we lived most of our life. That's where we had our youth, our childhood. That's where we grew up. That's where we had, you know, I think our major growth moments in life. And then, you know, we came to Dallas when I was, what was that, around 12, 13-ish or younger? I was 12, 13. 13, I was 10 maybe.
And then, yeah, we've been here since in Dallas, alhamdulillah. What is your probably most fond memory of St. Louis? For me personally, like I went to this preschool, Hamilton Preschool. Okay. And the teachers there used to put like these marble type gems in the mulch of the playground. Okay. And keep in mind, I'm like the only brown kid at this school, you know. And so I'm like, I'm not, no one's playing with me. So what I used to do is like, I used to like feel like I'm a treasure hunter and look for like these gems in the soil. And the reason why I think it's such a fond memory, because I feel like that type of like looking for treasure has kind of translated in other areas of my life, right? Whether it be like talking to another person, like finding the gem there, or like seeing how I can make an impact in a certain community or something like that. Like there's always gems all around us. We just have to like take some time and be patient, you know, dig it out. You had an impactful teacher, mentor. You mind telling us about him? But this was actually like a gateway to Islam in a sense, right? Okay. Where, you know, the first, I would say, I'm not sure about you, but I would say he was the first one that kind of lit the fire for the Qur'an in me, right? Okay. The first one who believed in me in terms of like, you know, because he taught me the Qaidah and then he taught me, you know, learning the basics, you know, Arabic and then learning the Qur'an itself. But really, you know, looking back at it, it's the story that he had that was so inspiring. And the reason where he was the first person to inspire this light of Islam in us. And then he was also the first person to kind of re-trigger it later on in our life. He's a Qur'an teacher. Yes. He's a Qaidah. That's how, Qaidah is basically the book of learning how to recite the letters of the Qur'an, recite Arabic, read Arabic and recite it. So he was the introductory, the gateway to like us, you know, getting into learning the Qur'an. And his story is beautiful. Like his story is, you know, he was a director of engineer in Iraq.
Okay. And in Iraq, this is, you know, during the time of the America-Iraq war that's happening. He is trying to flee with his family outside of Iraq, right? And at the time he has four kids, right? I believe three of them daughters and then one boy. As he's fleeing, he's trying to flee. He goes into a territory of land where he's not supposed to, right? And keep in mind during the time, this is a sandstorm going on. So he's kind of misdirectioned, you know, he doesn't know where he's going. And he ends up in a territory of land where he shouldn't be, you know? And he's lost and in front of him, he doesn't see but there's like an army of US soldiers. And the US soldiers are yelling at him and he is, he can't hear them. He's like, oh, I don't know what to do. He's like, and he puts his hand out, he's waving like, you know, I'm trying to, I'm just lost, I'm just lost, I'm just lost. The army, they see this, the soldiers, they see this and they get worried, right? And, you know, without any probable cause, without any reason, they start firing. They start firing crazy and they start firing now with just guns, with tanks. SubhanAllah. So tanks hitting his car. And this is him, his wife, Wafran is there, as well as his four kids. He gets shot in his legs, you know, and we'll talk about that, you know, in a bit. And three of his kids, they die on the spot. On the spot, they're dead, right? And then one of the kids is still alive, right? So after, you know, there's a repeated round of firing that happens towards the car. What happens is that, you know, they're taking the army officials, they come and they take them to the field hospital. And in the field hospital, you know, they're staying there for a couple of days. They kind of, they help him with his legs. They attach his legs together. They amputate his legs.
But then there comes a point in time where in the field hospital, there's not enough beds. Because there's wounded soldiers that need a place to rest and there weren't enough beds for them. So they tell him that, can you get off the beds and go to an area where you just be sitting down? They take him off the bed and they put him in front of, you know, this campsite. While, you know, they're trying to arrange another living area for him. While, you know, these wounded soldiers take up the resting area where they once were. Over there, he had the only person that survived among his children was his daughter. And his daughter was, you know, laying, you know, close to her. And it was cold outside. And I remember him telling us where the daughter's like, you know, it's cold. Like, it's really cold, right? And like, how helpless he felt as a father where he couldn't do anything. Like, he couldn't, he didn't even have enough strength in his hands to like, touch his daughter. Like, hug his daughter. And his daughter died that night. In his, right in front of, right in front of him, his daughter died, passed away. You know, after that, you know, eventually they take him to a hospital. And then he gets an opportunity to come to America. And they move him to America and, you know, St. Louis, Missouri. Like, that's where we're living at the time. That's where my father meets him, at our masjid, you know. How old were y'all when you all heard this story? So, St. Louis are not a lot of Muslims. Okay. You know, we're out and about and we see a hijabi lady. Like, we're just walking and we freak out. Like, oh my god, no way, you know. And we go talk to her, this, that. And she ends up telling us about Daham, who is our Quran teacher. Daham. Daham, Daham Fleh. And then, like, my dad's really moved by this. My dad is like, we have to do something. And we start, you know, raising, like, funds at the masjid to help support.
Because, obviously, he has nothing right now. His degree is invalid here. We meet at the masjid and, like, he comes and my dad's giving him, you know, some money, right. His hand flinches back. And he says, like, look, like, I've always been the person that gives. So, forgive me, because this is really hard for me. And, because this is the director of engineering. He's coming from here and he has nothing now. Like, look at how, like, Allah searches things, you know. Takeaways, took away his children, everything. Everything that he loved. And he said, like, I'll take this money because, like, I need this right now. But I'm not, I want to, like, I want to do stuff. Let me teach your children Quran. And that conversation started the journey of our relationship with Daham. I see. Where he would come over and we would have conversations. And beyond just Quran, you know, teach, we're coming over to his place. He actually ended up, after teaching us, he taught another kid in the community and another kid. He ended up becoming the Quran teacher for the whole community. MashaAllah. He had a very difficult time even having children at all. He had four children, alhamdulillah. But, you know, in the beginning, like, he would make a lot of dua to have children. He's older now, right. He's, like, in his 50s, 60s, right. And he actually, he has a kid. He has another kid named Muhammad, right. And he names him, yeah. And I remember reading this about him where one of the interviewers was like, if you have a kid, what would you name him? He said, if I have a daughter, I'll name her Zainab for my eldest daughter that passed away. And then if I have a son, I'll name him Muhammad for my son that passed away. And, like, alhamdulillah, look at the path of Allah and how Allah has, like, really curated this person. And at this old age, he has another kid named Muhammad, right. So, we used to call him Hamoodi, you know. And Hamoodi would get all the new toys. The new PlayStation, Wii. And we would get kind of, like, father. And you're like, yo, what the heck.
And my dad was telling him, like, hey, listen, like, you're going to pamper the kid. You're going to spoil the kid. He tells my dad, like, Tanvir, my father, I've lost all my children. This kid, I'm going to give all the love that I can to. Allah Akbar. So, you heard about this news while you were doing your, I mean, you knew about this already. Yeah, because we would ask, like, there was a CNN special, like, a piece that was on him, right. When did it hit you? Like, okay, yeah, this happened to him. Our Baba told us, he's on TV. But when did it hit you? Because you mentioned that you all moved to Dallas. Yeah. Okay. Did it hit you while you were there with him and you realized this is a living hero? And look at how he's coming and contributing to this community. So, when we came to Dallas, like, we completely, we forgot how to read Quran. We weren't that practicing. How old were you? You know, middle school, high school. Yeah, era, you know. Okay, okay. Like, we're in the whole American system. Right, yeah. You know, the distraction that comes at you at that age. Yeah. The acuity kicks in, too, you know. The acuity kicks in. And we had completely forgotten about everything. So, you guys said it reignited. So, my younger brother, he's eight years younger than me. Someone needs to teach him Quran. First pick in the draft, Dahamfle. You know, he's the guy. So, we reached out to him. He's like, of course, sessions are happening. One of the sessions, he ends up canceling, you know. And he called my mom. And I remember hearing this conversation. Where he says, like, hey, listen, I'm going to need to, like, take a break from teaching your son. Because, like, I've been diagnosed with liver cancer, lung cancer, and brain cancer. Oh, my testicles. And I'm like, my brain can't even comprehend what's happening. How long ago was this? Like, 2021. This is, we're in Dallas now. We've been in Dallas for a minute, you know. So, there's been a gap of time where, you know, we haven't spoken to a Quran teacher. And, you know, we've kind of moved on, kind of, with our lives, right?
And then it's, like, such an interesting way how our lives kind of intertwine again. I think that's where, like, your kind of world, there's, like, moments in your life where your world kind of shatters a little bit. Right. Because then you reflect on the, you know, like, what this person has left you. And it becomes really hard when you realize that, like, you're the embodiment of someone's Sadaqah Jaria. Like, you are, like, the legacy that somebody has, you know, invested their time in. And not even just any legacy. This is the Quran. Right. You know, this is the most important thing in the world. And then you think about, like, how many times that you kind of pass by the Quran on your shelf. He gave us a Quran. He gave us a Quran. Yeah. And we still have. Imagine the feeling that, like, just looking at it, like, yeah. And it's interesting now that you mentioned that. I mean, I have to say, you know, a real big shout out to a lot of the Quran teachers out there. Because some of them, it's their living fine. But, you know, it's really, really, you know, when you open the Musaf, each and every single, you open the Quran, each and every single one of us can have a photographic memory of the person that taught us. Whether it's our father or whether it's a person in the masjid. You know, for me, I have my own. Mashallah. I remember when I was a new Muslim and, you know, he sat me down. He said, you can learn this. You know, you can recite better than me. And he's one of my favorite reciters till this day. You know, he's from India. He's from Kerala. You know, Sheikh Hussamuddin. Yeah, in Houston. And, you know, he taught me Alif Ba Ta. And every time I open the Quran, it's like a dua for him, you know, when I think about it. So this contribution that he gave to you all with the loss of his family and then coming back and, you know, planting a seed that it seems like once you left to Dallas, you know, we're human, right? We grow up and, you know, as you said, we move on, right? But then your brother, your younger brother, Allah used him to plant a seed in you to do some future contributions in which we'll talk about. So take us through that. I mean, okay, so when you hear about the cancer, who told you and then what was going through your mind? Each one of you. I mean, I heard it through the phone, right?
He was talking to my mom. It was on speaker. Oh, it was on speaker. So I heard, I was, you know, like blank. I don't even know what emotions to feel right now. And like, I remember like me and Ayman were having this conversation afterwards. And it was like, it was this moment of like, accountability that comes with that. You know, because like Ayman said, like he left us something huge and you reflect like, wow, like I've completely like let go, moved on, this, that. And a lot of it is because like when you're, when you're Muslim and you're, you know, you're in a Muslim household and a Muslim family and Muslim community, you're like, other people will take care of my lean form. Oh, SubhanAllah. But this is like a moment of like, whoa, like I have to take accountability. Like Allah's going to ask me about this, you know? The waqf says that's all on you. Yeah, like this was a blessing that I had. So you guys felt like you were taking advantage almost of everything around the community that you're in. You just neglected everything that was given to you. And at that moment, you realized that your community, which was that Qaww teacher was leaving. So you felt like. I think it's even more than that. I think it's also like, how would you explain this? I mean, I would say that it's like, you know, it's like through the Qur'an, he left a part of himself, you know, and that part is really embedded within us. And it's like, you know, if we don't continue the Qur'an, if we don't continue reading the Qur'an, it's like it's kind of like the legacy that he left has just like we're regraining it. You know, it's like slipping away. And why don't we go back to the Qur'an before that, right? Is because like as a man, you have an ego and you want to like not go into areas that affect it negatively. Like what if I'm going to open the Qur'an, I'm going to feel like I'm an idiot because I'm like, oh, that's right. Yeah, like I don't know anything like, oh, my God. But that was a moment like we have to like address these negative. We have to move that to the side. And we have to step up throughout the whole process.
Like, I never heard this man once say, like, oh, my God, like, why am I so interested so much? This man loses his children, like loses his status, his honor, his dignity has to start from a whole new country from a situation of poverty. And now he has like all of this. And he has a young kid, Hamoudi. And he's disabled as well, right? And he's disabled. So when he came to the States, he was amputated. Yeah, he had a robotic. Running robotic, like foam and he used to like. I mean, on top of that, he also got his master's degree. And he was a mechanical engineer. I was taken away from him. Children taken away, degree taken away, leg taken away, health. The fact that he's able to just withstand that and move forward. I mean, you're talking about gems, right? And I feel like just with your story, there's so many gems to unpack. Right. And I think it's kind of funny. It's kind of like throughout his life. He was searching through and finding the gems. And that's important for a man, because especially if he's going to leave, he's got to know how to fall down, know how to fall down and get back up. Right. And it seems like he's gotten back up in numerous facets of his life. I mean, even getting back up by naming like that name can bring back some memories that you may not want. But he chose to name some Muhammad and Zainab. You know, if that opportunity presented itself, and then to go back to school, could have easily just given up. To be a Quran teacher in school, but he went ahead and persevered. And that's very, very important. So when hearing about the news of his death, what was that for you? Was there a transition for you in your growth as a man? I really valued his story after he passed away. You know, I really thought about, you know, the impact of the Quran. And I really started thinking about these things, you know, like priorities. What are my priorities? Although, you know, I was younger at the time, I really started understanding, like what had just transpired? Like, what are these events in my life that's happened?
Why it happened? I think that was the first time where, you know, it kind of allowed me to, you know, look at my life in a sense of like, Allah has put these people in my life for a specific reason. You know, and even right now, the news of the passing of the Quran teacher, you know, what does this mean in the grander scheme of things? That's when we had that, you know, that light of, man, we got to get back into reading the Quran. We got to get back on learning the things that we've lost. Yeah, sometimes it's important that the drive, when the drive is strong, it can weaken the ego. Because I remember there was a brother, he wanted to learn Quran. And when I showed him the Quran classes, a whole bunch of kids were like, right. I said, this is the Quran class. And he just let me say, okay, so every time I walk in there as a big dude, a whole bunch of kids, he's reading, they don't exist. He's on a mission, right? The drive was too strong for him to worry about his ego and what people would think about him because he was on a mission. He wanted to learn the words of Allah SWT. And I think that's SubhanAllah, when seeing the embodiment of that with the Sheikh, you had to do some introspection and say, okay, what really matters? And I think his death served as a catalyst. I mean, even with your father, you know how your father, he planted the seed. By seeing that potential in him and then saying to you all as young boys, we got to do something. We have to contribute. We have to give to this individual. And who knows, your dad probably saw something in him that, I mean, definitely y'all probably didn't see. And that, and y'all mentioned Sadaqah Jariyah initiated it. And that's all in, like you said, the grand scheme of Allah SWT and predestination.
Now, when you look back, I think all of us now watching and looking back at that, don't ever lose the opportunity to contribute, to give. And with that, I mean, what did that do for you all in your future? Because I know that you have some organizations that you initiated. The community has been very kind to us in terms of like opening its doors and giving us opportunities that we might not have had before. One of those opportunities is something that we worked on was a project called Nourishment. Essentially, we started from like just, you know, taking food for like from places like Jimmy Burgers and Crescent Moon to like food banks, like Beacon of Light, Masjid al-Islam. And that transitioned into, you know, sitting down with people like who are in like these homeless situations, charting them a path out, helping them get jobs. Which then turned into working with like Igna Relief and Marouf, going inside there, teaching students about the value of like career education and really helping their trajectory get back on track. These are refugee students or people that kind of don't have like... Most are refugee students, some are just at risk situations, you know, but really like delving into that mindset, like, OK, consistently, I have so many blessings, what am I going to do with it? Like, what gaps can I find to address that? Or what can I join? I was part of Helping Hands for a long time. We did the Tarbiyah program, mentoring, mentoring students even at the GEM Center. Well, shout out to the GEM Center, Mashallah, beautiful, beautiful work. I think it's a gap that has not been filled, especially the contribution to the community that happened to be Muslims. Right. I think it's an important angle that you say, OK, we're contributing to the community, but we just happen to be Muslim. But it's everyone's welcome. And we contribute in different ways and help the people that are underprivileged or underserved. And I think the GEM Center over in West Plano is just a phenomenal, phenomenal effort, Mashallah.
I mean, that contribution gave you an avenue to contribute. 100%. So like contributors contributing amongst each other to contribute to the greater mass. So it's interesting because you started out with food and it moved on to education. Everyone's like, why is it called nourishment? You guys aren't serving food now, you know? Was it nourishing with education? Nourishment is a much more comprehensive. But what made you, what happened to where you said, let's just go to these restaurants and get this food and then transfer it here? And what made you do that? Was it a particular event? And why food? And why did you start with education? You know, as a man growing up, especially in this individualized society, the conversation is always like you see all these other people on the forefront I want to be like that guy, but I'm not that guy. I don't feel like I have value. And like, I think especially being like Muslim men, you can get very insecure. Not everyone's got muscles like this. You know, I think initially it was that insecurity, right? Where like, I want to, I want to like try to address this. One of the stories that really affected me was the story of Musa, where Prophet Musa is this person who is constantly afraid. Constantly insecure. And the conversation that he has with Allah in the cave is very much like, I want you to go and conquer this challenge. Like I'm giving you this responsibility. And he's like, I can't do this. I'm insecure. Like his heart drops. He makes us to uplift my heart and make my brother, you know, a prophet as well. And like Allah responds, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to answer this du'a for you. Just like how I answered this du'a for your mother. And he goes into detail about like every single aspect of his life that he did not think actually related at all. Like we put you in the basket and you grew up and you accidentally killed a man.
And then you, you, you went to this village and you were there for a little bit. And then you came here at the exact time that I wanted you to come. And throughout this whole time, I was watching you. As if to say like all these pieces that happened in your life, however minuscule or, you know, small that they might've seen, they're all for a reason. So like when you look back at your life or at my life, at least, you know, that sense of insecurity changed into, so how many people have a first generation father that went through such adversity? How many people have, you know, education? How many people have, you know, like the sense of like passion, agency, you know, um, who have like mentors. And that kind of converted like, okay, now what can I do with this? Let me just find a problem to solve. And before I think going into like, okay, let me just do this on my own. I started looking at like other people are also already doing this. Helping him play a huge part in this shake Jesse. I don't know if you know, he's a guy he believed in me to the, I told him in that idea to take medical equipment from Dallas to hospitals in Kenya or around the world. He was like, after this conversation, he's like, okay, so when are you going to Kenya? I'm like, what are you talking about? Literally, I think two months after I told him that thing, I was on a flight to Kenya and you have mentors and people who are believing in this community, like just because you made an intention. Yeah. I want to, I want to start right there. So, and this is very powerful right now, because you manifested an aspect of your masculinity with the story of a prophet as your anchor. Right, and you said to yourself, Moussa did this, I'm going to use this as my example, prophetic masculinity, right? Because of that purpose of having the ultimate purpose of a loss of being the anchor and using the stories of the people that, you know, he's given the correct message to profit hood.
You looked at that and you said, okay, Moosa was, I'm scared. Okay. Moosa was scared. It's okay to be scared. Moosa, as you mentioned, when the name that pops my head is a little deep that a lot. So, because Moosa was afraid, but then a lot said, yeah, he said, we're with you. Yeah. Well, so not to Kelly, right. And I've created you for me. You know, he says, you've been given us, we'll give you another bus. And then he goes on when we revealed to your mother and mentioned those things, all those subtleties, you may have forgotten about it, but I'm using it to remind you to show you my power. So that was, it seemed like it was a catalyst for you to go on and move on, which leads me to the next point is that even though you were scared, you still went and did it. Like Jassi, Sheikh Jassi, Masha'Allah, he's from, he graduated before us, Masha'Allah, University of Medina from our predecessors, Masha'Allah, may Allah bless him. You know, he planted that seed again, and that's from Allah that brought him there to tell you that. And you could have just let that fear overpower you. Right. But you didn't let that fear overpower you, you used it as, you faced everything and rise in fear. You use that as a means to say, you know what, I know it's a fear, but I'm going to continue. I'm going to take, I'm going to continue. I think the other thing is like, we stand on the shoulders of giants and a lot of this is because there's people who believe in you and you owe it to them to take that chance, whether it's my parents or Sheikh Jassi, you know? And one thing is very important here. Many people don't believe that. I think there's a lack, a lot of men, a lot of young guys in our community, but they don't feel like they have that in their life. But it's also because they're not taking that step forward. There's so much fear and insecurity. It's blocking them from seeing these giants all over. Yeah. But you know, what's deep about these giants, right? I don't know what capacity, but you probably met him within Helping Hand. Sheikh Jassi's Helping Hand. I'm sure I've met a lot of people in Helping Hand as well.
Helping Hand is a nonprofit organization. So it's people contributing their time, their expertise, and in that path, in that realm of contributing time and expertise, Allah put you across paths. And he made the decision to say that to you. Sometimes you probably said something to someone, you don't even realize that it had a huge impact on that person, but it was just a response. But it was all within the framework of you contributing time at a certain event, whether it's making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, you know, whatever. You said that because you initially came to contribute for something which puts you in a particular setting to say and to do that. So, you know, it's beautiful how, you know, when you look at some of these movies, it shows like the future at the beginning of the movie. But then the movie takes you to the past, which brought them back, which brings you to that future. So it's beautiful in seeing that, okay, these giants, Allah used them to serve as a catalyst for you to go and face your fear and go to Kenya. Right. So you went to Kenya. And then what happened there? What a country, beautiful people, everyone. You know, that Hakuna Matata, they embody that man, super laid back, show people, you know, you have the sense of seclusion everywhere. Very green. And like, I was able to see, you know, it's interesting because people say like, oh, man, like, did it change you because you saw poverty? I'm from India, India has a lot of poverty. You know, I don't think that was what really changed me, what really changed me was seeing people step up in the face of like, almost unending obstacles. Like, and be like, I'm going to work on solving this problem. Because the whole helping hand team there, some of them were my age, some of them were younger at the time. You know, how old were you? I was 19. So 19 years old, everyone, listen, mothers, please. 19 years old, may Allah bless your mother and father.
I mean, I mean, 19 years old, the parents let him go to another country to contribute. This is definitely a part of what we call rites of passage. And this is definitely a huge element and phase or marhala in Arabic of his rites of passage. Basically, rites of passage is a symbol of what is an event or a ceremony or a practice that tells them that you are not a boy anymore. You're a man. So I think this was a huge element that continues. Wanted to make that caveat. After that, I come back to Dallas and I'm like, I'm ready to take on the world, you know, like 18 year old. Like my head is like, you know, going crazy. And like, I just talked to some people and they're like, relax, you know, how about you start focusing on your own community first? Okay. You know, because think globally, act globally, act locally. MashaAllah, that's a beautiful example. And I was like, okay. And we got up with a couple of friends. I'm telling, I tell them like, hey, listen, like, why not? You know, there's a thing like, uh, what if I fall, but what if I fly? You know, like that mindset of like hopefulness and optimism that are really rooted in like Islam is like, now we're like embodying that. So like Ivan and I, like a couple of friends were like, we're going to these food banks and we're taking food and we're trying to like see and address problems firsthand. Okay. Like this is solving this problem. This is not solving a bigger problem. How can we pivot? How can we learn? How can we research? Um, how did I like, it snowballed into something that I could never even imagine, you know, like people think like, oh, I want to create this huge organization and this, that you can never do that from like, like, that's just, I love putting Baraka in your intention and things are happening. Connection happening. You don't even realize, um, and it really humbles you, man. Like it really does. He says, snowball. See the snowball is motion. So you had to move, you know, and that's important because sometimes we get caught up in analysis, paralysis, or, you know, with the fear that
prohibits us from moving, but it's depriving us of those experiences that make us a stronger, better man. It's beautiful that you brought it up. One of the main principles that we stuck to was momentum is oxygen for an idea. The moment you stop, it stops, you know, it ruins everything. So like, no matter where you don't keep shaking, moving and shaking, you know, it's fine. As long as we have a, I'm assuming micro procrastination. I forgot where I heard this, but you know, they call this the sofa. You're the sofa joke. Joke. So in Arabic, when you say I'm going to do something, you say either seen or sofa, right? But then where are you with the procrastinator? Where are they always chilling? That's it. We're going to, that's going to be a dad joke. I got to shake on one. You just wait. There's a lot in the ping pong check dad jokes. This brings us a, I mean, this is really interesting because I feel like I'm really, I want to hear about the story because your souvenirs are, that's, that's not sofa. That's sad. You guys chose to go to a, you know, a protest, um, and it's just part of your giving, giving to the community without a thanks. You went because of a cause that the community, the global community this time needed. Yeah. So tell us, tell us how that went down. What made you just get up and go the whole week? I mean, all of us, it was like looking at things like, uh, Columbia's universities were on fire, you know? And it's like, Columbia, MIT, and like people are just don't care. Yeah. Camp now, like it's like, they don't care about the consequences. We're like, we're going to stand up. Diploma's being shipped away on the fourth year. Like people putting the president at Columbia tells him if you're not gone by Monday at 2 PM, like we're going to start suspending. Like there's a large portion of you that we're not, we're not hoping more people are going to actually go into the building. Yeah. You know, you see all these things. And as a person, you're like, man, I wish I would be a part of this. I wish I'd be that type of person. And then the opportunity comes UTD.
I'm an alumni. My money's going to fund genocidal companies that are making the bombs that are being dropped in Ruffa right now. FYI is how UTD a part of your tuition goes to study. That that's actually what we're protesting. So the main campaign was divestment. And we're like, we're not going to, we're not going to take part in this next thing. You know, we're at UTD, Gaza liberation Plaza. But we came up with that name. Beautiful. That's what we called the encampment. Um, but, uh, so we set up there and shake over. So the man comes and, um, he's, he's, he's fudger and it's, uh, he recites, um, he recites sort of Doha or actually, you know, he's talking about afterwards is the, the light from the sun is like, it's going from dark to light, you know? And he's saying like, did you see that? Like afterwards, he's like, that shows like kind of what we're trying to go for here. And he's talking about like, do you see, do you hear the birds chirping? And we're like, well, now, now we do, you know? And he says, everything right now is in harmony. Even this, what you're doing is a, it's part of that harmony. You know, you're standing, this is Islamic. This is, this is what we're here to do. Um, and like this emphasis on you're part of this bigger plan that Allah has really like from the, I was fudgered. That's what we needed. You know, we were like, okay, now we're in it. You know, we're, we're here for a good cause. Uh, you know, and like professors are coming, they're reading like, uh, how was your experience over there? Yeah. So, so, so for me, what happened is that, you know, I come a bit later, you know, I see it, you know, I'm like, man, there's not that many people here. Right. But then, you know, like as the day goes, it's like, subhanAllah, it's like, it's like the community comes alive. It's like, there's, it's a small encampment right on a block in UTD and by midday, there's like every area of the block is filled with the person, every issue, you know? Um, and then, you know, we're waiting for a response. Keep that in mind. Right.
And so for the past six months, UTD has been doing these active protests, uh, that, you know, asking the university to divest from these weapon manufacturing companies that systematically are, you know, they're, they're in our backyards, like a lot of them in Garland, you know, that are creating these blocks that are sent overseas. So we're just waiting. And I'm at, I'm at a point where like, you know, I'm like, nothing's going to happen, you know, I don't know, you know, the point of these types of stuff. Right. And all of a sudden, you know, there's, you know, there's a girl that comes up with like a letter, you know, this is the first sort of interaction that we've got. Um, and she's reading the letter and she's like, uh, the letter is basically saying that, you know, if you guys don't leave, we're going to call, you know, we're going to call forces. Right. And this is the first sort of kind of communication that we've gotten. So like what, as she's reading it, there's people surrounding us, you know, or surrounding her. And at the end of it, she's like, but you know what this letter doesn't say? It doesn't say anything about the genocide that's happening in Gaza. And after that, everyone went crazy. And then after that, within 10 minutes, it's like, it's like, at that point, it's like a movie, you know, it's like, you know, then we see the state troopers pull up by police department, by the way, police department, there's police department, there's Dallas, uh, there's the Dallas police department. There's, um, the calling county police department. There's the UGD police department. There's a sheriff's department. There's the, uh, state troopers. And they're like, we're in a position where they're coming down towards us. Right. And it's like, all of a sudden thing just become real. All of a sudden, the flip of a switch. And Kamran, I like Kamran, like a great older brother. He's like, he makes a decision. He's like, you know what? I'm staying. No, no matter what I'm staying. I actually, I think I was the last person to join this. The, so what they did was that the people that were like, you know, that decided at the moment that, you know what, I'm going to stand for what I believe in. I'm going to sit down and they create a circle in the middle of the encampment. And they're like, you know what? They can take us, but we're not leaving. You know?
Um, I was probably the last person to join. And the reason why I was, because I was so worried about my job. Like, I was like, man, I got work tomorrow. This is a Wednesday. Tomorrow is Thursday. You know, you make these duos that are like, man, I wish I can be part of something. You know, I wish like I can do more than just like, you know, give money, donate. Right. And then Allah just gives you an opportunity to write that. You know, um, one of the things Kamran tells me, right. That I think about a lot is that like when we have anxiety, and I was having a lot of anxiety in this moment, but when we have anxiety, that's like Allah's way of telling us that this is where you lack the local, right. Yeah. Trust. Right. And like, I've been making dua of like, this is like aftermath thinking about it. At the moment it was like, everything was like a blurb. So you were slowly folding, but then you were coming to your senses. Yeah. I was like, it was so like, it was so much like, I have, I haven't even like, even right now impact everything that happened. But like, you make these duos of like, increase me in the local. And like, you've given an opportunity right there. Are you going to take it? You know? And the last moment I was like, you know, I throw my watch, my Apple watch and throw it and my phone and give it to somebody. And I joined the circle. So they, after that, you know, they take us and they chain us like we're chained from our, from our legs, from our waist shackle. Yeah. To our hands. So we're shackled in three different areas and everyone like recording, everyone's like, you know, um, what's your name? You know, we're going to get you out of here. Like they'll give you a supporting us. Then they put us in these, you know, paddy wagons, right? I always bring me a mess of the name and these, these paddy wagons are extremely hot, right? Yeah. Like an oven. And then they take us to the Columbia County detention center. This is seven ish and it's getting close to Monterrey. Right. And you know, we're told that the protesters from UTD, they've come here. And we're like, so at that moment, we're like crazy. This just happened. And they said there's a hundred people outside. Yeah. Right. And this is like the, the, the effect of knowing your UMA's behind you.
So one of the people in, uh, you know, that, that were arrested, they were like, to, to, um, the, the, the police, they were like, yeah, I have to, I haven't prayed yet. It's usher time and I haven't prayed yet. Right. Um, and then the guard is like, he's confused. He's like, you know, I've never been asked before, like riot gear inside the jail, like masked off helmets. This is like, I'm like, we're here. And this person's like, you know what? I don't care what it is. You know, I have to do us. You know, I got, I got, you know, I got bigger things. You know, I have a relationship with Allah that I want to, I don't want to put on, I don't want to jeopardize. This guard is like all worried and all that. And he's like, you know, he talks to his friend and he asked me, should we let him, you know, whatever. And then they're like, you know, like, what can they even say? There's a hundred protesters outside. And they're like, you know, so we could hear them when we were leaving out, when we were leaving out, like while walking out, we heard like, literally like the jail was shaking. And like, so we were, you were zip tied, but they took our shackles off and they gave us a zip tie that we were doing. And yeah, and there we were like, we were, we were, we were praying with our hands zip tied, but then, you know, you know, they take us to the holding cell and we see these inmates coming in and the inmates, they, they saw the protesters as they're coming into jail. And, you know, they see it on TV too. Some of the inmates inside, they're seeing it on TV and like, SubhanAllah, like you see these relationships that we've built inside of the jail. And it's so, so beautiful for one of them, you know, um, we call him Goku because his hair is like super cool. And he comes up and he was like, you know, right. See you guys, you know, how, like how unified you guys are, you know, and I want to be like you guys. Right. Um, and he talks about how, you know, for me, it's so hard to get out of jail because like, it's not even like I try to do bad. Like, I'm just surrounded by, like, I just, I just end up here because I'm surrounded by like bad influence. Yeah.
And that's really like, makes us reflect on like, look at the amount of like, again, like amount of blessing we have in terms of like, we are surrounded by the best of Muslims, the best of communities, you know, the best of your message is scholarship. You know, like it's so like the, the difference is so vast. What's fascinating is that all it took was one look that in me, it took him one look to what we have as everyday to just sit down and say, I wish I had that. I want to be part of this. How long was it? I think it was 24 hours. Well, so you're hearing, I guess what took place to where you would let out? I mean, what, what, what happened? The first arraignment session was in the morning and, but they were trying their best to wake up a judge to get us out that night. Really? Yes. Yes. So we were like, you know, we were pretty confident. And then not only that, we had attorneys come and checking up us, checking, so the pressure was productive. Yeah. The pressure from the protest is productive because they were trying to get the judge to hurry up and get you guys out. I'm not even joking. They were running. Like they were like, we got to get you guys out. Really? Especially in the morning. They were like, me and Moose had a job. We were going to wait for everyone else to get up. And they're like, no, no, we need this. Wow. So what was the final verdict at the very end? Cause some people eventually got let out. I saw the news. Everyone was just released at some point, but I'm sure it wasn't like that for everyone else. So basically there's two types of bond, right? PR bond basically means that you don't have to pay anything. You can just leave. Right. And then there's something called a post bond, meaning like you can't leave until you pay the bond. Um, so what happened was that, you know, we all, all of us, we had our arraignment session in the morning. So we wake up, we have our arraignment session. Um, and then I think most of us get a PR bond, but some of us don't get a PR bond. Some of us got a post bond. And the reason for this distinction was because, uh, and people say this is what our lawyers said was it could be because UTD talked to the judge. And they basically said that if anybody refuses to speak or says like, I plead the fifth for any questions, give them a post bond to make it harder for
them. You know, they got out later. So they got out later. So most of us got a PR bond. So we just left right away. Like we, we, after the arraignment, we, we got our paper and we left. Some people, it was a little bit harder where they have a post bond. And another thing that I want to add to that is that, you know, on top of like, you know, these supporters and these lawyers, there was also, they also were like, we'll pay for all your bonds, everything. So this is a, what did you call it? A badge of honor. The badge of honor, uh, this is a sign of their contribution of their time. It's upon their efforts, uh, and their strength ultimately, because, you know, they stood up for something that they believed in. And I think it's very important for us as, as men and as particularly young men, you know, particularly those that are in college, when you're saying that, you know, it took the, it took, you know, the brother to stand up and to say something like, you originally came on and seeing how that left an effect. And now the way that you're speaking, you're speaking with passion, you can imagine if that fear could have held you back from working, you know, are you working now? Yeah. So, yeah. And you're still working, still working. Right. So, so upon Allah, because you stood up for something, that is really understanding that Allah is a Raza, right? That Allah is the ultimate provider and that spirit of contribution that I think your father planted that seed and assisting someone to help that seed grow to where you use it as a memory and a time of need when coming back to, you know, to Dallas, all of that, the contribution of you going to Helping Hand, contributing over to Kenya and then to come back and then to contribute with nourishment. And then another organization with, you know, all of this contribution is very, very, very important. And particularly of the man, when it comes to provision, you know, provision we think of always of, of a financial provision I provide for my family. No, but it's providing an infrastructure for people to function.
And that is a level of contribution as well. So anytime you see this, and the other individuals that were there in McKinney, you probably have your badge of honor as well. Let this be a sign of Allah's blessing and the creator using you as a means to leave a legacy from contribution that you have given as well. May Allah reward all of you for tuning in, Allah bless. MashaAllah, brother Kamran, brother Ayman. Alhamdulillah, thank Allah. And always, our student, JazakAllah for coming in and please leave a comment for any contribution, anyone that has contributed something that is good to you, that has left a legacy or any contribution that you've done that has changed your life. We read the comments and InshaAllah, we'll take the effort to mention some of those beautiful comments. InshaAllah, JazakAllah khair for tuning into the Iman Cave and stay tuned for our next one coming up, InshaAllah. BarakAllahu feekum, wasalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
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