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Lead with Integrity | Iman Cave
In order to lead in our communities and families, we must have strong, unyielding moral principles. How can we cultivate and prioritize this trait? Br. Basheer Jones and Br. Abdullah Muhammad join Sh. Abdullah Oduro to unpack the quality of having integrity—including recognizing your value, leading with heart, and looking towards your elders and the support of your women—to build firm foundations within yourself and those you support.
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. Yeah, man. Well, first, you know, when we think about, you know, dirty or clean, it's a matter of perspective and dirt, you know, flowers grow through the dirt. The irony that my biggest opposition as being a Muslim city councilman, in some cases, were the Muslims themselves. Wow. You know, in my city of Cleveland, people didn't know me as the Muslim guy. They knew me as Bashir, the one that paid for my grandmother's funeral. Even as a man, Allah spells it out, you are the leader. Don't be confused with what society is telling you. Don't be confused with what is on social media. You will be held accountable for what's underneath you that I gave you. Certain sins can humble you and bring something out of you that an arrogant good deed couldn't, that in order to even get into such dirt, you have to fall. It's upon you, man. You're going to continue to suffer the way that you're suffering until you recognize the shoulders in which you're standing on. Because some of us may think that manhood is the value of what's in our banking account. There you go. Manhood is the value of what we, quote unquote, bring to the table. She loved him for the character. She taught me how to treat women. But she couldn't teach me how to be a man. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh. I'm Abdullah Oduro, and welcome to the Iman Cave, where we discuss issues of male excellence while being grounded in faith. Integrity, honor. What does that really mean in the life of a man, particularly a Muslim man? And how does that transform to make him a person that is highly impactful to the world? We're going to discuss that today, inshallah ta'ala, with our two illustrious guests. Masha'Allah, we have Abdullah Muhammad Nafis, alhamdulillah, inshallah, the principal of the decade. He told me not to say that. He's been a principal for over 10 years, alhamdulillah, internationally and domestically, if you will, alhamdulillah.
And to my left, we have brother, masha'Allah, beloved Bashir Jones, former councilman of Cleveland, and is very strategic in getting Muslims out in the forefront. As he mentioned, some Muslims do in-reach, but we focus on outreach. I love that. Masha'Allah. And I think, I mean, that's a good segue, you know, when we're talking about outreach, right, that that is really important because there has to be a level of integrity. There has to be that those principles that you abide by that you will not budge for. You know, I remember when I was, subhanAllah, when I was young, I was I just became a Muslim man. And I was like, you know, maybe 21, 22. And I was going to surgical tech school. And I remember I never forget, man, I went to the hospital. They took us to a hospital called St. Luke's in Houston Medical Center. And I watched my first open heart surgery. Masha'Allah, it was Mrs. Edwards, I'll never forget. You know, I was telling them as a Muslim, you know, there's Fridays that I have to go to pray Jumu'ah and even those during school, you know, I'll make up for it. And then they were telling me, she was telling me, look, I don't know your grades because if you're not going to be in class, you know, you may not pass the program. I said, look, I believe as a Muslim, Allah is going to make everything happen. He's going to make it possible. So if I pass, I pass. If I don't, she was amazed. You told her that? I told her that. I said, this is my belief. You know, this is what brought me here. You know, because I became a Muslim is what brought me here. Right. And I think it amazed her because I guess she expected me to just to abide by that, which if I was to abide by it, it would counter my religious activity and religious responsibility. You know, for her, seeing that that was, you know, what was the foundation for me was what was important.
Then, Abdullah, when I got my job, graduated, alhamdulillah, you know, got the job, you know, even before I finished, I worked at Memorial Hermann as a surgical tech. Take me back. And she, I had an opportunity to go and make hajj. Two weeks into getting my job. So I'm sitting here this year, man, I'm sitting here like, yo, this is an opportunity. I was a new Muslim. This is probably, you know, two years, one year into my Islam, right? Islam is the one that pushed me to go to surgical tech school. I would have still been, you know, way out there. I said, man, I'll never forget this, man. I'll walk to Shirley's. Shirley was the human resources. She's the one that got me the job. I stood in front of her office and doctors and people could walk by. I stood in front of her office and I put my hands up and I said, I just made du'a. Right there, I made du'a, man. And then I walked in. I said, Shirley, look, as you know, I'm a Muslim and I know I've been here for only two weeks. I'm taking a break. Yeah, right. I said, I have an opportunity to make something called the hajj, H-A-J-J. You know what happened? Oh, yeah, I know what the hajj is. My husband, he loves it. She showed me a picture of the Kaaba. And she said, you know what? I know this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Go ahead and do it. We got you covered. What? Integrity, man. You know, so and as a man, you know, I know both of you have experienced throughout your lives and what you're going through, what you went through and what you're going through. We know we will continuously go through. That it's important to maintain those principles. You know what I'm saying? So how was it for you, particularly, man, Bashir, you know, at being in Cleveland? You're originally from Brooklyn. Yeah. But throughout your time in Cleveland, particularly in the political scene, we're going to go into different things. But how was integrity important for you as a man, but particularly as a Muslim man in that sector?
You can't learn how to be a man unless you see men. I mean, you know, one of the things I think we make a mistake of is, you know, you hear people say, happy Father's Day to their mothers, you know. And even though you have women who who can play the role of men, they can never be a man. Exactly. So when I when I see you and see the work that you are doing, it encourages me because most of us in the spaces that we're in, whether we are principals or shuyuk or we are city council members. It's not a lot of us in this space, especially black and especially black Muslim. So it feels like it feels lonely at times. So when you can look online and see a speech or you can look and see these different things, it's inspiring. It's motivating. And I mean, so, you know, being in that political space, it's a it's a lonely space. I was the first Muslim city councilman in Cleveland's history. There was a lot of decisions that had to be made and where I had to ask myself the question, what do I want my legacy to be? And how will this be of benefit to not just my reelection, but how would this be of benefit to my hereafter? And this was a constant conversation I would have to have. And in politics is a is a, as some say, a dirty game. Yeah, but it is a necessary one. And there are people there are some of us who need to be in that space in order to make sure that we are not on the menu, but have a seat at the table. I like how you said, I like how you said it's a dirty game, but someone has to be in that space. And that's the risk that a man has to take at times for his family, for his community, especially when he's leading. It's got to be done. And I think that's something that a lot of, you know, every every elder will say it about the youth.
Right. But, you know, particularly with this era, being risk averse is something that can emasculate you. You know what I'm saying? For sure. You know what I mean? So for you doing that, just kind of take us there. I mean, when you what did you see that was dirty? And you said to yourself, I'm I'm laughing because I don't know how much time we got. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Go ahead. I mean, you asked him a question about dirtiness in politics. That's what I'm asking. What did we guys about dirty in education? So we got you. We got you. So, you know, education might be even more political. That's interesting. Oh, I can't wait. It's going to be so food, man. All I can eat. So so what did you see that was particularly dirty? Right. And and and what pushed you to just say, you know what? I got to do it. Yeah, I mean, well, first, you know, when we think about, you know, dirty or clean, it's a matter of perspective. And dirt, you know, flowers grow through the dirt. So dirt is necessary, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, I mean, for example, politics is all about the art of the compromise. And a lot of times, particularly Muslims, we look at people in political spaces and we we judge them as if they're imams and they're not imams. They're not sheikhs. We are not that we in a totally different perspective, a totally different lane, even though the masjid tend to be as political as other places, you know. So there's plenty of times where things may have come up for vote topics on the LGBTQ community or topics on alcohol or topics on any of these things that may be that you may look at from the outside as adverse to to us as Muslims.
And one of the reasons why actually I went to Bayan and got my my master's in Islamic studies was because I wanted to understand not just what we say Islam is, but what is the the practicality of being a Muslim in leadership positions, which may be a little bit different. There may be and you know better than me, Sheikh, that, you know, what may be OK or not OK for one may be something totally different in this position. And you have to make decisions. So if I would have came in as a councilman and say, yo, I'm closing all the liquor stores tomorrow, all the liquor stores going to be closed, man, I would be out of the I wouldn't be in that that position the next day. The very people who enjoy liquor the most and the Muslims that sell it to them. Subhanallah. Majority of the liquor stores are owned by the people I'm from. So so so I would have gotten out of my seat from both sides, unfortunately. And I'm laughing not not because it's a joke, but just the the irony that my biggest opposition as being a Muslim city councilman, in some cases, were the Muslims themselves, were the Muslims themselves. So so with that integrity. I like how you said you didn't just come in and just break the idols, for example, right? There had to be a level of wisdom, you know, in the Sharia, they call that looking at the ma'alat, you know, looking at looking further beyond and kind of not prophesizing, but saying, OK, the probability of me doing this most likely will lead to this, you know, you know, it's beautiful. Allah says in the Quran, Do not curse those that call to other than Allah, for they will curse Allah without knowledge.
This is a primary verse in regards to, you know, closing the pathways to that which is evil. So the integrity, there has to be a level of wisdom with that. So you didn't immediately just come in and. Now, you know, I think that and I'm I'm, you know, our principal brother Abdullah here knows this man, especially being, you know, having a father like Imam Qasim, and many of those great men who really put the work in in this community, you know, in my city of Cleveland, people didn't know me as the Muslim guy. They knew me as Bashir was the one that paid for my grandmother's funeral. Bashir was the one who built this park. Bashir was the one that stopped that shooting from happening. Bashir was so they knew. Oh, yeah. And he's Muslim. Yeah. And he's Muslim. You know, so in Cleveland, you know, Cleveland is a different place where I have a lot of love in that city because I serve them. So when they see my sisters or they see the Muslims come and have the hijabs on, it's like we're not coming to pass out pamphlets. When you see us, we come in to pass out food. We passing out medicine. And we just happen to be Muslims. And many people have become Muslim, not a result of our words, but as a result of our service. And I think that, you know, integrity is a strong word. And I don't and I'm not sure that that I have always had integrity. But the beauty about Islam is that. You know, the beauty of Islam is that you always got a chance, man, you always got a chance, man. So my focus on service in part has been because I felt so undeserving of Allah's mercy.
And that service is like, just, you know, I know I ain't going to get in from my deeds, but just maybe I can get in from his mercy. And that's beautiful. And that coincides with the Hadith, man. You know, the Prophet, peace be upon him, he said, so none of you enter Jannah with this. You know, what did they ask him? They said, will I answer you, Rasulullah, not even you, O Messenger of Allah? He said, not even me. Except that Allah encompasses me and covers me with his mercy. So exactly what you said is, MashaAllah, spot on with that, man. It's the mercy of Allah. And I would say that I think that that's the heaviest part in any leadership position. I've learned from other leaders that. When you really focus on your role and responsibility as a Muslim, that Allah has given you with this title, even as a man, Allah spells it out, you are the leader. Don't be confused what society is telling you. Don't be confused or what is on social media. You will be held accountable for what's underneath you that I gave you. And on top of that, you have whatever job description you have outside of that. So in our positions, we're sitting as leaders and. With Muslim students, there's a weight to this. And if you don't have the proper fitness, you'll tell us more that you don't have the proper nutrition, you don't have the proper cardio, you can break something, you can lose something and you feel that because you're sweating, you're actually gaining progress, but you're just taking out energy and releasing stress, for example.
So I think, you know, when it comes to the integrity part, that's a that's a heavy title, I can't sit here and say I'm any of that, I've been blessed to be, you know, asked to join you all and take fruits, but back to what you were saying, my stepfather, Imam Qasim Ahmed, may Allah have mercy on him and all the other great men who paved the way through that community, Imam W.D. Muhammad community. I was given an example. I have no excuse. I have no excuse. And that that's a heavy weight because I knew what I had when I was with him. But it slapped me in my face when he was gone. Unpack that, man. Well, unpack it. So I mean, it's the the weight is the amount of impact you don't realize until someone's gone. And when you're with them, you don't appreciate what you're being given. So even with my own kids today, I picked them up from the part of school. And of course, they're hungry. I had to finish some work before coming over. So I said, hey, here's some here's some dates, you know, dates. All kids will love dates, I assume. So then they start asking for the mail and and quail and fruits and vegetables. I said, we got dates right now because we will have no dates. And I remember these conversations from my stepfather, the struggles that they went through just to be able to have identity as a Muslim, but before that, as a man. Okay. So the Islam part came after they realized that they actually first was a human being, that they didn't have to necessarily follow those steps and that they had some strength in it. Islam only elevated that passion and that soul and that spirit that already had
that was built inside of them. So this is what I saw growing up. I saw hard work, integrity for as long as he lived. And as long as he was my stepfather, he never worked for anybody. And he made that very clear to all of us. You can go clock in if you want, but do for yourself, build for yourself, build for your community, build for the Muslims. And that work ethic helped me achieve a lot from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala with this example. So whenever it came to sports, I wasn't the best athlete, but I'm going to outwork you for sure. I will be taking your spot in trial. I'm coming to get your spot. But that transferred over to everything else. It transferred over to where there was work in hotels or restaurants or case management or to education. I always loved school. That was the thing. I needed school. School didn't need me. I need to be in an Islamic environment. The Islamic environment doesn't need me. I benefit more than anything I can give to any school that I've been at. And the integrity I get because I remember what my stepfather used to say, and he did many talks about this. He says, when you look at a baby, it transforms you because the level of innocence and integrity that Allah has put into this child, you start transforming speaking the language of a baby. Because you remember your innocence in this baby and you're trying to wash off yourself through this baby. So you're trying to speak the language so you can be transitioned. So when I'm in a school, whether it's kindergarten or grade 12, and I'm dealing with the challenge and I have a situation where I have to make a decision because that's the everyday thing. I have to look again back at Allah put me in this situation, but I have to reflect on myself as a leader. I have to reflect on myself as a male. Don't be too hard.
But I also have to gain from this experience because Allah put me here. And the integrity of an Islamic school environment, though it's not peaches and cream and all, you know, we have our challenges just like everyone else. I at least get to go pray. Right. And that's what's beautiful, man, because you're in an environment that you are held responsible to lead with integrity because you're going to see, I mean, this is youth, right? I mean, you're talking about prepubescent and pubescent in the same building. The same building. Right. You have your sixth graders and then you have your 12th graders. So you're going to have to know how to deal with this one in a different way than you deal with that one. Yeah. But you have to maintain that integrity in both situations. Right. Let's be honest. I mean, there probably be some kids, you know, that are probably didn't pray for when, you know, when school lets out and you've seen them. But how do you appropriately address that sixth grader? And then that 12th grader, you know, that you have to have. And then there's probably going to be some sisters that are probably not wearing the veil at all, probably not wearing it appropriately. But you got to be gradual in the way you address it. Right. So that's deep. But, you know, kind of going back on your stepfather. Yes. I think it's important that we take time to just stop for a minute, man, because, you know, when we're talking about what goes on with Islam in America, how particularly the African-American diaspora in America were the ones that really helped in establishing Islam in America to where those that came to this country benefited from the fruits of that. I think that needs to just be articulated from the gate. I think it's been gradual with that. Yes. But it was because of those men and women. For sure. In the way that Allah has created them, the men holding it down, like literally,
you know, those of you that know what holding it down means. I'm glad you paused, yeah. Yeah, you're right. You know what I'm saying? They had to hold it down in a certain way. Some of those ways had to be very physical. In ways that, you know, Mashallah, they're OGs for a reason. Yeah. OK. I like that. I mean, I mean, but they had to do that in order for us to sit here today. I mean, and not only us as black men, but I mean, those that are out of Pakistani, that are non-African-American, of course, to a certain degree. Of course. Right. They they had to maintain that manliness of protecting and providing. And then the women being those of inspiration to Paul, right. Amongst other much other beautiful characteristics that both of them contribute. What have y'all seen, man? I really want to just stop on that. If there's any experiences y'all seen from the integrity of the men at that time and how you benefited from them and how that helped you in your manhood. You know what I mean? Can I say something real quick Abdullah? Because I wanted to just, it's interesting you brought up the baby thing and how the baby, you know, because I was just thinking about this the other day. Like I have a tough time. I have a tough time with a person who is not moved by children. You know what I mean? Like if you're a person who sees a baby and you're not moved to be like, hey, baby, I'm like, man, what's wrong with this person, man? Like you run into people who say, look, I don't have time for babies. You know, I don't want any babies. Yeah. Don't put a baby next to me. Yeah. And that is a feeling of like. Yeah, man, like your heart is not moved. Maybe something went down. To mercy. I mean, it really goes back to mercy. And I think that's, I want to say, I'm going to get to what you said Sheikh, but I want to speak to you all as my brothers and let you know, because sometimes in leadership positions and this idea of integrity can also come across as this false idea of perfection.
And there is lessons in falling and there is lessons in not getting it right. And there is lessons in, you know, you know, trying to figure it out and committing sins. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying it in a way that I'm trying to push anybody commits. I'm saying that certain sins can humble you and bring something out of you that an arrogant good deed couldn't. So I just want to say to my brothers who are in leadership positions to let you know that you are enough. Be merciful to yourself. Yeah, I mean to that. That. That in order to even get into sajda, you have to fall. It's a palm. Oh, man. Right? There's no way that you can even get to prostration without falling. I told you that when we dress like this. You got to have two or three of those. You got to fall, but just get up. Yeah, and I just want to say to the brothers that we have to get into the habit of loving on one another speaking life into one another and letting each other know that you are you are you are worthy not based upon what you give to the world, but you are worthy because you are sufficient and Allah has put you here for a specific reason. And, you know, Sheikh, when you were speaking about, you know, people not even still not understanding the shoulders in which they stand upon is just, you know, you're going to continue. And this is directly to the Muslim community. You're going to continue to suffer the way that you're suffering until you recognize the shoulders in which you stand upon. It's as simple as that. We're really good at in reach, but we're not good at outreach. And one thing about, you know, I'm a third generation Muslim.
My grandfather, my granddad, Ibrahim, one of the founders with Imam Suraj of the Masjid al-Taqwa, my uncle, Imam Abdul Malik, from Cleveland, Cleveland, First Cleveland Masjid, Imam Abbas, who's the grandson of Hajwali Akram, which is one of the oldest Islamic institutions in the country. Like, you know, we come from a lineage of freedom fighters and and Muslims who have who have really stayed on post until they was properly relieved. And we have been tricked into believing that we should not respect the woman which we come from because of this, you know, this debate about theology and ideology. And it's like, OK, you can debate about all that you want, but you can't debate about that work. You can't debate about the fact that you're safer in the hoods of America than you will ever be in rural America. And they may not know how to say it. Salaam Alaikum, sister. They may not know how to say it. They're going to get something. But they know in Houston, in Cleveland, in Brooklyn, in Chicago and in every hood in America, there's quick consequences if you mess with that sister with that scarf on her head. And that was that work that our elders and ancestors put in. And maybe they didn't have they didn't have, you know, this full understanding of Sharia. And but they understood they understood the importance of leading with the heart and taking care of home. And they didn't do it. All right. Right. Yeah. But they did the best that they could. They understood that they understood the mission, man. So, Shaikh, that's what I want to say to all of the elders and all of the the Khadijas of our community, because there is no community without our sisters and the work that they've put in behind the scenes, in front of the scenes. I mean, the first person the Prophet of Islam ran to was Khadija. I mean, where will we be, Shaikh, if Khadija would have said, man, you better get up out of here.
Where will we be? Yeah, you are kind of crazy because I said I fear for myself. Yeah, you something wrong with you. But if you if you look at the other side, the integrity of the Prophet of Islam, to have because sometimes, as you mentioned, you have to fall to even get to sujood, right? The Prophet of Islam, his, if we're talking about manhood, the definition of manhood, of course, it's him, peace be upon him. But his comfort, his understanding of what he is as a person. Before the Wahi came, he understood what he had in his wife as a man and at his lowest of lows, not understanding what is not being able to comprehend. He didn't go to his cousin. He didn't go call his uncle. He went to his wife because that was already established there. We're going to support one another. So she just reminded him who he was. Inspiration. She just reminded him, you're the one that I'm following. You're the one that brings the integrity of this thing. If this goes down, it all goes down. So this ain't going to go down. Right. And just to have that partnership, but just a connection that the Prophet of Islam had with his own, you know, identity that people get into. I'm this, I'm that. When you understand the impact that Allah has blessed you with, and I tell people all the time, you don't have to flex your title. Exactly. It will speak for itself because of your action that you do. You don't need no banner. You don't need no tag. You don't need a different color shirt. You don't need no uniform. You're just doing work. Yeah. And the work you do speaks for itself, like they say. Well, he doubted himself. You know what I mean? Because, you know, she asked for his hand. It's a palm. You know what I mean? It's a palm.
You know, so I'm just like, when we look at like, the society that we're in right now, the dynamic that we're in, like, we need Khadijah's man who speak life into us. When we don't speak it ourselves, when we don't even see it in ourselves. Right. He was, you know, he, she was like, don't even worry, don't even worry about that stuff. What you thinking is man. Because some of us may think that manhood is the value of what's in our banking account. There you go. Manhood is the value of what we quote unquote bring to the table. So she loved him for the character, for his character. And she gave him the space to go to the cave and go spend time and get away. And space to go to the cave. You should do a series on that. In man cave. But that's deep, man. Because, you know, sometimes as men, we feel that we're not enough. And we go to these superficial things, money, you know, the way we look and think that that's manhood. You know, and that's beautiful. The process that he debunked it, when he said that the harsh one is not the one that can wrestle. A superficial physical thing that we will see, you know, a lot of you think, how much do you bench? No, look, that can be a product of some type of control of myself and discipline, which is a trait of manhood. But it's not definite. So he said that, you know, the harsh one is not the one that can wrestle. Rather, the harsh one is the one that can control themselves in times of anger. Because anger, when a man gets angry, he can lash out at his family, his children. They can get dangerous. And that's what true manhood is. The controlling of the self. But at the same time, like you mentioned, you know, he goes to Khadija and he was vulnerable, you know what I'm saying? Because he knew that she was going to be a source of inspiration. And I love how you mentioned he wasn't a prophet. At that time, he was chosen. Yeah, but there was a relationship to where he would go to her to at this time. It's already set. It was already set. It's already built in. You know, and that's beautiful. That's beautiful, man. And that mercy, that rahmah, like you mentioned earlier, the rahmah. And she gave him reason, Sheikh. She gave him reason to why he should believe in himself. Exactly.
She started to say, no, Allah not going. You take care of the guests. You take care of the orphans. She started to speak life into him, man, you know, and then she said, you know what? I'm going to take you to my cousin. She started to find people to speak life into him too. Yeah. You know, so that's what the women of our community ultimately have always been. Alhamdulillah. You know, when you look at the movements in America and throughout history, you know, our sisters have always been the backbone. Exactly. And boy, oh boy, if you have a Khadija, man, you blessed, man. And that's what's beautiful because I think, you know, the ultimate goal for me, particularly to speak about masculinity and hone in on it now, is the preservation, the establishment and preservation of families. Because now you're finding with these gender wars, whether it's from previous feminism and you're finding, yes, misogynist Muslim men, you know, downplaying the woman. Don't show your emotions to him. You can't open up to her. No, this is very clear. There was a level of opening up. Of course. And there was vulnerability. And then the wife didn't take advantage of it. She didn't look at him as weak. She looked at him as a source of inspiration. She was a source of inspiration. It's interesting how you mentioned Waraka too, her cousin. She was the glue at that time. But she knew he was the leader as well, you know what I'm saying? Which is beautiful. Masculinity does not inherently mean debasing the woman. Yep. No, masculinity is embracing and understanding the woman and knowing that we need each other. Yeah, but understanding and embracing our nature as well. And I think that's what you mentioned. You know, our forefathers, Mashallah, that were here and established Islam. They understood that very, very well, Mashallah to Barakallah. And these institutions were established. Yeah, I mean, even if you look back, you know, during, if you want to say the nation time and how they had things in front of Islam, that was number one and number two. There was no disrespect in that. They were trained to be able to run it when the men were doing what they needed to do. And there was a level of confidence. There was a level of trust. There was a level of communication. There was a level of support.
There was a level of gratitude because everyone understood the job. Everyone understood the assignment. If we want to be that nation, if we want to be that movement, then we have to put all our egos aside, the different levels of our nafs and say, why are we here and how can we contribute for what the future generations? Yeah, and I wouldn't be sitting here. I mean, my mother took a shahada when she was 17. She was Catholic. My dad took a shahada when he was 22, Baptist, stepfather. He had his own history of living in the streets, living in YMCAs. I mean, and when I tell my people, I want to tell people, I said, my stepfather is an ex-gang leader of the Chicago streets. That's who raised me. What are you talking about? Like, I'm not, I don't need to go back and forth with you. We don't went through it all. The crease on the bed. We had the trunk as if we were in the military. Come on. I didn't know if I was in a movie, watching a movie, or making a sequel. It was confusing at times growing up, but we made it though. We made it. Alhamdulillah. So, I mean, having that motto is important. And I think a big part, you know, to be fair, even for the woman's side, when you have a role as a leader inside the house, we know, but when you're, you've chosen from Allah to lead others, that balance of home and work, especially when you have children involved, and especially when your wife is in need of you as well. That balance is a big part of our role as the integrity for the definition of a household, to call it a house, to call it a family structure. We just don't want to have the titles. Right. You know, I want to, I want to, I want to speak on that because, you know, I was, I was having a conversation with my son. And I know a lot of times, you know, we get into these conversations and because of the noise of the outside world, we find it necessary
to make sure that we uplift women. And this is important. It's important for us to do it. But I told my son that, and he could be patient with me. I said, before I want you to become a good husband, I want you to be a good man. Like, I want you to be okay with being a good man. And you, your value is not necessarily in becoming a husband or in how you treat women, which is all important. Don't get me wrong. It's important. Of course. But we grew up in a society where, you know, we tell our girls, you know, to love yourselves and make sure that you choose the right person and, you know, blah, blah, blah, and all things that we should. But when it comes to our sons, we don't have these same type of dialogues of what they deserve as well. And I want for, for every young boy and for every man, you know, growing up, I didn't have my father in my life and I grew up really hating my father, really hating him, hating his absence. But it wasn't until I became a man and became a man, did I realize that he had his own journey and whatever it was that he wasn't has made me the man who I am today. I love that. So the same way that I can be thankful to who my mother was for me, I have to also be thankful to what my father wasn't because it made me who I am. And at that point when I can be forgiving to him for his journey and him being a human being, then I was able to say, you know what? My goal in life wasn't to graduate from Morehouse and wasn't to become a councilman. It was just to be a better father than my father was. But the moment that I realized that my father had his own journey and I was able to forgive him, then I was able to be merciful to my own self and my own journey. Because if you hate your father, there's a part of you that
you're going to also have some hatred for because you are your father. So I just want to say to every man that's out there who is struggling, you know, to be the man that their father wasn't or, you know, to be a better husband, you know, to be like, to be something for somebody else. We're always, as men, valuing ourselves based upon who we are for others, rather than who are you when you are alone, when you are by yourself, when you look in the mirror, do you find, are you happy with that human being? And, you know, the best thing my mother taught me was how to treat women. That's all. I mean, that's, I mean, and she told me to be merciful and empathetic and these things. Yeah, who I love. And my mom, her name is Imani. She transitioned 13 years back from breast cancer. So my best, best friend. But she taught me how to treat women, but she couldn't teach me how to be a man. There's no way she could do that. Beautiful. And I think that it's us, what we're doing. You don't know, Shaq, how many people you're inspiring to be men, to be okay to be a man. Abdullah, you as well, as being a principal of being, growing through what you've been through and overcoming what you've overcome. You don't know how every day there's a student that may come to school, brother, who just can't wait to see how you're going to look today. You know what I'm saying? Can't wait to just hopefully that you just say, you know, I'm saying, what's up to him or just a joke and people depend on that to the world. You may be one person, but to one person, you might mean the world, man, you know, so much love to the brothers out there who just struggling, man, who don't know if they're going to make it to see tomorrow. You know, just know that you important. What to when you when you spoke about your father, it reminded me, you know, a lot of times because you only have one father. I know who my stepfather is. May Allah have mercy on him. I know who my father is, too. I've been blessed to have that as a blessing. My parents did an amazing job.
Never was there anything negative. I heard from any side growing up about either one. But when I did go see my father, which was which was normal every summer, the thing that I learned from my father very on is consistency. He'd always pray at the Masjid, even if he had to walk, even if we had to get the bus, even if we were only going to be there for just a few days, we were always going to Masjid to pray. That was ingrained in us, even if we only saw him for the summer and the amount of conversations that we had starting younger may not have been as deep, but they were meaningful. He chose his words wisely to where we remembered, you know, what we're supposed to do when we're not with him and what we're supposed to be consistent on, even though I don't have to say it to you because I know I'm not in your face as your stepfather's in your face. Because I know your stepfather very well. For the Qasim, mashallah, he had his own reputation. So he knew he didn't have to give as much, but he knew which ones to give to where me, the little Quran that I know or reading it on a consistent basis when it happens or praying. I know where that foundation came from. From my stepfather, being able to understand, go to a little deeper, being able to get into the community, have that confidence. I know where that came from, right? Then I look at the other male figures in my life, my uncles or my other siblings, my older sibling of the wahid, you know, one out of 11. He's number one. So he's like, I'm the wahid and I'm like, you're not the wahid, but you are the wahid in the house. But seeing what he went through and being able to reflect on a man looking at another man and not being envious. That's powerful, man. But saying, man, I want that what he got and I'm going to learn from him.
Yes, like in education, you beg, borrow and steal. You take whatever is the best because it's not about you. It's about these kids in front of you. So if I got to go to your class and watch your class three times because these kids come out of here exciting, I'm going to lower my X amount of years. I got the little letters. I got that comes with my degrees and all this other stuff and I'm going to take from you because I want to give the best of myself to these kids. That's manhood. Back to what you were saying. Wow, that's manhood. It's not about, you know, who's going to get the light. It's about you've been presented an opportunity. Are you going to humble yourself and benefit yourself first or benefit those that allows you to serve because you're going to get both just depending on how you look at it. That's powerful, bro. That's beautiful. You know, that's a beautiful statement. I want to end it with a statement. I always say it. I probably said it before on this show, but when we're young with our fathers relationship with the sons and the fathers when we're young, our fathers, we idolize. But then when we get a little older as teenagers, we demonize them. But then when we become older, we humanize them. Wow, that's powerful, man. So it's idolize, demonize, humanize, man. And that's deepened. I mean, we all, you know, had that level of going through it, man. And subhanAllah, may Allah make us men of integrity and honor and allow that honor to be a rippling effect upon those around us. Inshallah. Jake, I appreciate you having me here, having us here together, met this beautiful brother. Nah, I'm glad y'all connect. I'm definitely going to get on his clothing line game. You did not tell me he was coming. Inshallah, pray I can get on your scholarship. When I walked into the room, it was like shining. I want to say thank you, man. Cocoa butter. Come on, you know that Vaseline. Just to be around you brothers, man, I feel stronger, man.
And I just want to say thank you as well, Shaq. And I want to just say thank you to my own father. You know, I want to say thank you to my father. And I appreciate you, Abi. You named me Bashir, you gave me life. And you gave me the greatest gift. And I just want you to know it was sufficient. I pray that anything I do good, I pray that you get the blessings for it. Thank you, Shaq. Thank you for coming, man. May Allah bless you in your efforts, man. And I hope this isn't the last time we see each other, man. Insha'Allah. May Allah bless you too, man, for coming through. Make dua for me, insha'Allah. Forgive all of us, insha'Allah. Keep it going, Shaq. I know he don't talk too much, but he does conferences and Kali. Getting the brothers together. It's good. You need that. I think, Shaq, you should really think about that, man. I think you have the influence and power to bring us all together from different places. And maybe there needs to be this Muslim manhood conference. That leaders from politicians, businessmen, educators, that we come together and prepare for the next generation. Stay tuned. We're working on it. Oh yes, sir. Stay tuned. Insha'Allah. That sums it up for us. May Allah bless you all for watching, insha'Allah. And make all of us, especially the men that embody male excellence while being grounded in faith. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.
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