Lecture
32 / 84
17
Social Justice
Islam, A Coherent Social Justice Tradition | Omar Suleiman | 16th MAS-ICNA Convention
22
Jurisprudence (fiqh)
Appreciating Scholarship: Intro to Islamic Law - Tesneem Alkiek | Yaqeen in NY
26
Islamophobia
How Yaqeen Heals Internalized Islamophobia - Dalia Mogahed | Making Principled Progress
29
Education
How Yaqeen is a Resource for Our Community - Sh. Omar Suleiman | Making Principled Progress
34
General Psychology
Spiritual Personality - Zohair Abdul-Rahman | 2018 Yaqeen/MAS Academic Conference
35
Social Justice
Conflict Resolution: The Line Between Justice and Peace - Sh. Omar Suleiman | Lecture
47
Identity
Keeping Masculinity from Trending Toxic - Dr. Jonathan Brown | Reframing the Gender Question
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. Thank you all for coming on this early, rainy, foggy Tuesday morning. My name is Moir Abdelhadi, and I'll be leading this panel today with the fabulous Yaqeen Marketing Institute team. Starting off with Zina. Zina joined Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research in March 2018. She has more than seven years of experience in marketing industry, merging her background in search, digital marketing, and emerging media with her passion for telling stories of brands with a purpose. Prior to joining Yaqeen, she was a social media manager at a digital marketing agency in Dallas. She is a Dallas native and a mom of two. Nida is the creative director at Yaqeen, where she oversees branding, creative strategy, copywriting, animation, infographics, and visual design for print, digital media, and user experiences. She is also a part-time faculty at George Brown College in Toronto, where she teaches visual design for user experience. As a designer and educator, Nida brings a unique perspective in distilling knowledge into visuals to bring brand stories to life with high visual impact. I think we wanted to start off with a video to set the stage and understand what the conversation is going to be about today. Of course, combating Islamophobia with marketing and design.
Okay, so with that fun video starting off the session, so I guess, Zina, why does Yaqeen's work matter? And more importantly, why does it matter in today's political climate? All right. Well, thank you all for being here, and thank you for your question. So, each and every one of us has an identity. It's kind of the core of who we are as beings. And, you know, imagine that there is a narrative that exists about your identity that shakes you down to your core and makes you doubt everything that you've ever believed about yourself or what you know to be true. You know, Muslims are not the first community or group of people to deal with this. A lot of you might recognize this image from the Clark doll test in which Kenneth and Mamie Clark wanted to show in the 40s what the effects of segregation and discrimination are on African-American children. And what they found was when presented with these dolls, African-American children associated the white dolls with positive attributes while associating the African-American dolls with the negative attributes. And so, obviously, this is a case of them internalizing a lot of these stereotypes and a lot of this racism that existed at that time.
Fast forward to 2019, we see that happening in our own community with American Muslims. So, the video that we started off with is kind of fueling Islamophobia. Terror attacks, which by now, hopefully we know that terror attacks don't only happen by people who claim to be Muslim. But whenever there is a Muslim in this situation or someone who claims to be Muslim, it's actually the amount of coverage that they get. They get 357% more coverage than terrorist acts by other groups of people. So, just that right there shows that that just that right there is fueling this Islamophobic narrative. And we see that with the amount of hate groups, anti-Muslim hate groups that exist today. Since 2015, the number is only rising as well as anti-Muslim hate crimes. So, there's obviously a problem here. Now, there's one more actually study that I wanted to show. It was the ISPU one. I guess it's not in here, but there we go. So, Muslims are most likely to believe out of every other faith group that other Muslims or other people within their group of people of faith are more likely to behave in negative ways or associate with negative behavior. So, where does Yaqeen fit into all of this? Basically, what we do is we release academic research papers that tackle issues that reclaim the narrative about Islam. And so, there's actually a slide that shows a few of our publications. You can see the topics here. They're tough topics. They're things that you might have read about outside of an Islamic space.
And what we're doing here is providing these answers and this knowledge for not only Muslims to empower them and make them more confident in this political climate about who they are, but also to demystify misconceptions about Islam to the general public as well. So, it's interesting you started off with identity. So, yesterday we were talking about the session we're preparing and I had to pray. So, I literally pulled up on the side of the street in Congress. We all know how busy Congress is during South by. And I pray and I finish praying. And then this family came by and these little kids, after I was done praying, they said, Salam alaikum. And I was like, and it was like, it was really, really, made me really happy to see them, that identity that they're building right there, I was able to help them kind of establish that and it's nowhere near the work that Yaqeen is doing. But we obviously see the important topics being discussed. So, Nida, as Zina mentioned, Yaqeen is primarily a research institute and its content is really academic-based, scholarly-based. But could you speak to how your team makes the content more digestible, especially in an era with ADD? And more importantly, how does that combat Islamophobia? Thank you for asking that question. So, one of the main sort of products for Yaqeen Institute, it's like we're a think tank with a megaphone. So, there's a research component to it. And what that means is that we publish articles and publications, which can often be like 10 to 20 to 40 pages long. And so the idea is how do we take this content and disperse it and make it accessible and easy to consume and digest? So, the way we've done that is we've taken these articles and publications and we convert them into infographics. So, long-form infographics, we visualize them.
And then we take those infographics and we extract concepts from them and convert them into other experimental media like info memes. We have emotic quotes. We have high-yield facts. We have animations. So, I'll take you through what these look like. And the reason why we took the articles and basically are converting them into infographics is because an infographic combines text with image. And what you find is that it's 30 times more, you're more likely to read an infographic 30 times more than an actual article. So, in the era of when you have shorter attention spans or you're not necessarily reading the entire paper, we want to sort of convey the essence of what's inside of those papers. So, this is a representation of one of our articles. It's on internalized islamophobia. And what you can see is you have this long-form infographic. And I've sort of given you screenshots of what it would look like close up. So, what's happening is we're reading through the paper. We're extracting the key points. And we're visualizing and organizing that information into a story that you can then scroll through. So, if you go to the next slide and click again so we can see. So, you know, you can scroll through this and you can go through it and you can read, you know, these bite-sized components. So, think of it like bullet points that are visualized in these sort of memes that exist within this longer infographic. So, it covers the entire article. It's a visual summary and it's a nice way to organize it so it can be consumed. Now, we know that visuals are processed, you know, 60,000 times faster in the brain than text is. So, there's this whole idea of how do we spread this information and make it accessible and, you know, shareable.
So, then we go back to the infographic and we're extracting, you know, different parts of it. So, for example, you know, this is an info meme. It's a micro narrative. So, we've taken one focused concept and we visualized it. And the idea is to spark clarity in the moment when you interact with this graphic. So, you're looking at it, you're reading it, and you have something that you'll remember more than you would if you were, you know, just reading an article. So, taking these focused sort of info memes and can you go ahead? So, it's really about the marriage of like typography with visual, with colors to sort of enhance that concept and make it so when you read it, you really get the concept. So, it's more like, you know, you immediately sort of understand what's being said and it's like this bite-sized graphic that you can share. Another experiment that we did was what we call emotic quotes. And this is really tapping into the way we write. So, you know, we text message a lot and a lot of, you know, the way we communicate, especially inside of using these devices, is combining text with emoticons, for example. So, we sort of married this whole idea of big bold typography with these icons to sort of elevate and enhance the message. Another thing that we explored, I mean, most of you have probably used Facebook and you use the 360 sort of story feature with photography. What we did was we took that format and we applied, you know, graphic design to it and layout to it. And so, you know, engage with this interactive sort of piece that you can go through and again, it's a visual story, you know, working with the new, you know, working with the technology that we have inside of these platforms where we share this kind of stuff.
And then, you know, finally what we do is we take, so we take these infographics and again, you have this typography and, you know, images or icons that we're using to sort of narrate that story. And all of a sudden, you know, you're working with a different medium now. You have motion, you have, you know, you may have voiceover. So, now it's like a narrative that you're seeing and engaging with in a way that it's like, it's video. So, video becomes more shareable on a platform like Facebook or YouTube or Instagram. So, now we have this, because it's a different medium, you can tell the story a little bit differently. So, you know, we use animations as well to make this content, you know, more consumable and accessible. And what you'll find is, you know, these are heavy topics, so you've got a little bit of levity in the way that we're using these, you know, icons and graphics. They're like very Swiss inspired, they're modern. So, that becomes like a visual treat that you can, you know, and at the same time you're learning about these concepts. So, it's incredible the amount of graphic design and thought that went through this, obviously. Is there a specific example that you want to talk about to the group about how this infographic and article and all these visual components kind of matriculated down into a real narrative that combated Islamophobia? So, I'm going to request Zina sort of take you through that particular topic that we have and then I'll contribute when it comes to graphic design. All right, thank you Nida. You're welcome. Sorry, I don't know what I'm doing now, I'm just kidding.
So, a really good example of this is the concept of taqiyyah and kind of what we did to combat the narrative that was out there, counter the narrative that was out there by anti-Muslim groups. So, taqiyyah is an Arabic word. I feel like Islamophobes love Arabic words because it's already very foreign and it already creates a, you know, a confusion of sorts. So, they kind of play on that to manipulate and twist, you know, the meaning and it's easier to do. We see that with the sharia, we see that with jihad. So, taqiyyah is another one of these. So, to kind of tell the narrative, I wanted to share this clip, Mayad, if we can, on what the previous narrative was. At a protest the night before Donald Trump's inauguration in 2017, this happened. Stop telling people. I don't want your taqiyyah. I don't want your taqiyyah. That's me and that's Lauren Southern, a far-right activist. I didn't realize it at the time, but she's accusing me of being a liar because I'm Muslim. I'd never heard of the word taqiyyah before. I've since learned that it's taken hold in anti-Muslim circles to mean deception, that any Muslim can lie to non-Muslims if it means advancing some hypothetical Islamic global conquest. It's often used like this. Everything that comes out of the mouth of a Muslim is a lie. To lie about anything within Islam to conquer a land. There has no clue what he's talking about or he's practicing taqiyyah. The next time you're hearing something about Islam that just doesn't sound right and it comes from the mouth of a Muslim, you're right. It's not right. It's a lie. It is taqiyyah. They've convinced a lot of people. Just look at what's happening on Twitter. I wanted to know where this conspiracy theory came from and whether or not anyone would even believe me if I tried to prove it wrong. All right. So that kind of sets the stage for kind of understanding what the Islamophobic narrative is about taqiyyah. Basically that all Muslims are liars. Anytime we're nice to you, it's just because we have another agenda.
It's just part of us taking over the world. So, you know, what did Yaqeen do? We released a research publication. It's actually one of our shortest ones, but it's a very concise rebuttal to the taqiyyah argument that you just saw. From there, we created, Nida's team actually created infographics, bite-sized info memes that she explained, of course, go out on social media, and then an animation to kind of pull it all together. Yeah, so I mean, I'm Muslim. I didn't even know what taqiyyah was before that article and the paper was released, but Nida, I mean, awesome infographic, awesome kind of ways to dispel what the perceived taqiyyah is. Could you walk us through the process of how your team developed this content to combat that? Sure. So the challenge really with this sort of topic, I mean, the research paper in and of itself wasn't that elaborate. But the idea here was that, you know, you're dealing with these terms. So you've got taqiyyah, you've got sharia, you've got jihad, you've got words like these. And the challenge really is like there's two meanings going on. So there's a point of view that the Islamphobes have, and then there's a point of view that sort of narrates the Muslim, you know, definition of these words. So the challenge was like, how do you present this information in a way that deals with both sides of the story and, you know, creates that distinction between these two terms and what the actual narrative is? So what we did was we like employed compare and contrast. We sort of pitted these two ideas with each other so you can see, you know, that they're right next to each other in the layout, in the space, and then we're employing color. So, you know, you have the red, which is the Islamophobic side, you have the green, which is the Muslim Islamic interpretation.
And so we're dealing with like myth and fact, you know, truth and lie, and really, you know, creating that dichotomy. And then, you know, we have a section where it's like, you know, you're debunking the myth or you're coming up with the conclusion. And it is, you know, again, it's a difficult topic, but then, you know, we're adding that levity in there by introducing this like, you know, circle, this dot that's red, and he's really angry and he's talking about these, you know, concepts. So, you know, in seeing those two things side by side and really distilling the two definitions, it's like you get the picture, like this is what it means in this narrative, this is what it means in this narrative. And it like, it has you deal with those two definitions like straight up. So that was how we, you know, achieve that. I mean, so I mean, as we can see here, it's no secret how well produced this content is and how much thought was put into it. But I guess the ultimate question is, how do we know what actually changed narrative? Like, how do we measure that? How do we do we have stories? I mean, how do we know that it's actually worked? So the clip that we showed earlier, if you want to go to the next slide, that was actually the. Yeah, it's OK. Before. Yeah. OK. So that was actually the beginning of an episode all about Takiyah in a slate web series by Ayman Ismail called Who's Afraid of Ayman Ismail. Some of you may have come across this, but basically he goes, you know, around the country. He's Muslim and he's, you know, kind of tackling these stereotypes and these misconceptions head on and trying to find out for himself, what does all of this mean? And so, you know, if you put yourself in his shoes, you're confused about something. It's obviously attacking, you know, what you believe or your again, your identity. What's the first thing you're going to do? You're going to pull out your phone. You're going to go online and you're going to search for Takiyah. So he did that and he came across our content.
And he actually got in touch with us, sat down with our founder and one of the co-authors, actually, of the Takiyah piece and had a conversation with him. So we could see how that went. There's an Imam not much older than I am who's trying to do something about the misinformation about Muslims and how it's used to fuel hate. A little over two years ago, he founded the Yaqeen Institute, a think tank designed as a resource for Muslims and non-Muslims alike who want to learn more about Islam and resist false narratives. Yaqeen is designed to confront this hate not by taking on provocateurs directly, but by demystifying controversial topics for people like jihad, sharia and inevitably Takiyah. Takiyah is the Islamophobic way of portraying every Muslim as being inherently dishonest. That tactic has been used against Japanese-Americans. It's been used against the Jews in Germany. If you can portray an entire population as being inherently dishonest, then you can portray them as being inherently dangerous. And when you can portray them as being inherently dangerous, then that means that policies that are not acceptable to the public, that are not acceptable to the public, are not acceptable to the public. And policies that are acceptable to any group of people on the basis of that fear are suddenly acceptable. And deceit is one of the most hated sins in Islam. Most Muslims don't even know the word Takiyah. They're hearing about it from others and they think it means hat because it does also mean hat. So I want to understand whether or not there is a real version of Takiyah or a fake version of Takiyah or is it all just something that was made up? There were Albanian Muslims that were hiding Jews during the Holocaust and that were asked if they were hiding Jews in their masjid basement and said no, they were practicing Takiyah. I mean, it's just, it's common sense and mercy that you don't have to lose your life. And so it's okay for you to lie to escape danger or death. But if Muslims have been plotting this secret takeover in America for the last, however, hundred, two hundred something years, we've been doing a really bad job at it.
So, you know, to me, this and by the way, this was totally like organic. This wasn't part of some PR like effort or anything like that. He this was essentially a person, Ayman as an individual was faced with this. There was a lady yelling at him. I don't want your Sharia. And so he had this question, this doubt, this uncertainty, like what what does this mean? Is that is that true? Are all Muslims like liars? Do I you know, does she know about something that I don't know about my own faith? And so he had that. He went looking for the answer. He found our content and then you see this resolution. So it went full circle. So to me, that is the epitome of success. That's what we do. We want to provide those answers and have a resolution for people with these uncertainties. So I guess so I was there from the beginning of it and I kind of was there when when the foundation was established and the founders really emphasize the importance of marketing. They wanted to establish a marketing engine because they understood to get the message across marketing and communication and design was so important. But every marketing department has its own challenges. And when you're combating is something like Islamophobia, a billion dollar industry has its own unique challenges. So, Zina, how do you and your team overcome those challenges on a day to day basis? So our biggest challenge is, first of all, we're very bold in what we're setting out to do. We're saying we are going to reclaim the narrative from these people who are spreading essentially false news about Islam. That's really making a lot of people who are already hateful and angry even more upset. So they come out with a vengeance and they lash out and they do that on our social media pages.
So, you know, while a lot of brands, every brand kind of has to deal with trolls, it's a little bit unique in our situation because, you know, Wendy's can retweet and like post a clever comeback or whatever. But that's not something that we can do because they're posting extremely, you know, hateful, of course, comments. And they're not only sort of undermining our content. They being these time of folks, people. Exactly. They're not only undermining our content by trolling us, but they're also kind of invading the safe space that we want for our base demographic. And so just by them, you know, being there, they're they're being bullies. And so, you know, it's really funny because when we were first playing around with like, you know, Facebook and, you know, we have a team of people who, you know, has experience with Facebook marketing and ads and, you know, building audiences and things like that. Well, one of the interests that, of course, we selected was a slam. Right. Because you think that anybody who's interested in a slam is art within our target demographic. Well, no, because you could be interested, excuse me, in Islam as a Muslim because you're a follower, because you appreciate maybe the faith. You don't even have to be Muslim or you could be interested in Islam on the other side. Like, you know, Islam is, you know, a terrorist. Islam is violent or whatever. Exactly. So we were actually spending money on, you know, attracting these these Islamophobes and they were you know, we saw that in the comments and the engagement that we were getting. And a lot of them were funny, like, I hate Muslims. Why am I seeing this? Get this off my, you know, my Facebook. So obviously, like we tweaked it a little bit, but that's definitely one challenge.
Another challenge is, you know, from what we've seen, the Islamophobic industry, they're master manipulators. You know, they were able to literally hijack a religion and put their own kind of spin on that with other contributing factors, of course. But, you know, they're very clever in the way that they were able to kind of manipulate the whole narrative about Islam. And so, you know, with anything, myself as a marketing director, a challenge for me is any sort of like campaign or messaging or anything that we put out there. We always have to constantly be thinking, how could this be or could this be manipulated to serve the other side's agenda? And this happened to us. Last year, we had a month long campaign where we tackled the issue of internalized Islamophobia. We had, you know, child doctors basically who were reading out, you know, different questions, difficult questions that, you know, were kind of illustrating the doubts that they had. And we had we found out two days into the campaign that a anti-Muslim group or website had taken that ad and edited it and posted it as their own, kind of using it as, you know, look at these kids like they're so brave for speaking out against the system. So that was that was kind of like a reality shock for me because, you know, it really showed me just how anything could be. They're capable of manipulating anything. So, yeah. So you mentioned Ayman Ismail and how he Googled what Takiyah is to find out more about it. Well, again, you mentioned you just talked about how Islamophobes, a billion dollar industry, takes these messages and manipulates them for their own purposes.
So obviously, Google search is a big part of that message and communication agenda. So how does Yaqeen use SEO? It's like we're getting on a tactical level. How does it use SEO to combat Islamophobia and kind of make sure that the Yaqeen established research scholarly article about Takiyah goes above the act or whatever act or whatever organization is. There's many of them. Yeah, there's many of them. Takiyah's article. Yeah. So obviously there's a lot of value. Again, you know, the first place that that you typically go when you have a question is a search engine. And so SEO is extremely important. We see the value of it. It's a cornerstone of our marketing strategy. There's some issues that we run into with organic SEO just because a lot of these sites that are producing this, you know, other narrative, this other side, they have more site authority. They've been around for longer than us. So a lot of times, you know, we have to try a lot of different things to outrank them, basically, on the organic side. Some kind of ways that we found or different techniques that we found around this is utilizing Google ads. So, you know, SEM, basically these what we found is that these organizations or these groups that are putting up this content, they're not willing to they're putting out this message, but they're not willing to really pay much for it. So that was a an opportunity that we found that we could sort of even if we don't rank organically for some of these topics, you know, get ourselves on up there on the on the first page. Another way is that we have built sort of an alliance with minority groups at Google who are basically allies. They're saying, OK, we want to make our algorithm more.
Basically, Google, Google, of course, they're trying to make their their platform more user centric. And obviously they don't want to contribute to this hate. And so, you know, in 2017, actually, Imam Omar met with some folks over at Google and we were kind of talking about how we can, you know, change, tweak the algorithm a little bit so that, you know, whenever you type in Islam is you don't see violence, you know, under, you know, suggested searches or Islam is evil or whatever it is. And so that was kind of the first step. We're continuing kind of fostering that relationship with them, not only for Muslims, but also for other minority groups as well. So it's great. So, Nida, so topic is design and marketing to combat Islamophobia. So as an Islamic nonprofit organization, how do you see branding and design kind of contributing to Yakhim's present and future? Present and future. So the opportunity really for Yakhim inside of the design space is I see the opportunity of Yakhim being really bold and disruptive. So what do I mean when I say disruptive? You know, truth doesn't necessarily tell a story. You know, when we talk about lies, we can exaggerate them, we can dress them up, we can embellish them. But truth is like really plain and simple. So the idea is, if you can go to the next slide, you know, what would it look like? You know, what does it visually look like to display truth? So there's a couple of ways we can do that. Number one, it's, you know, people have these questions in the background that they're not necessarily asking. And to be disruptive in this space is really to start asking those questions.
So let's, you know, put these visuals out there and start asking those questions which are in the background, which are not being asked with big, bold typography, really simple, sort of clean design, and, you know, spark these conversations that are not happening in that space. And Yakin, you know, as a brand is dispelling those doubts. So we're ready to answer, you know, those questions. Another way that it could look like is just really highlighting and visualizing the confusion. So what does it look like? Like, what does confusion look like? What does doubt look like? And, you know, on the screen, like what you're seeing is you can actually read this, right? But it's at face value on the surface, it's like scrambled. So if you really look deeper, you can read this and you can engage with it and you can understand it. But this is what doubt looks like, you know, when you're confused and when you're, you know, dealing with the struggle, you know, you don't necessarily know and it's at the surface. So really using design to sort of visualize the experience that, you know, people are having. Another way we can do that is if you go to the next slide, really, again, you know, being bold enough to pit those two ideas against each other. So, you know, this is what we hear outside in the space, like Islam is a violent religion. No, Islam is a peaceful religion. You know, there's this debate going on. There's these two narratives. So really putting it out in the space and being disruptive about it and being like, deal with this. You know, these are the, this is what's out there. This is what's in the space. So what will it look like if we actually just be bold enough to like spell it out? And, you know, Yaqeen as a brand, you know, we are all about dismantling doubts and nurturing conviction, one truth at a time.
So it's a brand which is truthful. It's a brand which is, you know, clear. And so we, you know, I see the opportunity of us actually being bold enough to put that out there into the space and, you know, be represented as, you know, just being plain and simple with the truth, like even visually having that impact. So let's think maybe next year or tomorrow and Yaqeen succeeded in this mission to combat Islamophobia. There's no more Islamophobia in the world, like really utopian viewpoint. That would be amazing. But I mean, because the question is, do you actually believe that Yaqeen can rid the world of Islamophobia or at least United States, not to me the world? And then if so, what does Yaqeen's future look like if there is no Islamophobia? So I think it would be delusional to think that we could rid the world of all of the hate that people have towards Muslims and Islam and, you know, obviously fueled by confusion and misconceptions. But, you know, that's not really what we're setting out to do. Totally. We're not in the market of totally just combating Islamophobia. I will say, though, that, you know, the future does look promising because, you know, a lot of the sessions that I've been to, almost every single one of them was talking about, you know, trust and how this age of, you know, fake news has really brought. We crave truth now. We're so sick of the lies. We're so sick of, you know, Kim Kardashian telling us about like these vitamins that she doesn't really take that are like her favorite vitamins. So they work, by the way. So, you know, it's it's not working in in those spaces. And I'd really love to believe that it's not going to work in this situation either.
As Nida mentioned, we are built on truth. We dismantle doubts and nurture conviction one truth at a time. So that in and of itself gives us a very strong, I would say, future. It makes me extremely optimistic that, you know, in this quest for truth that we all have right now, after all of this fake news and the midst of all this fake news that surrounds us, that we'll be able to really make an impact. As far as, you know, if the big bad Islamophobic wolf disappeared tomorrow or next year, whenever it would, what you know, what is the relevant at that point? This isn't the only thing that we're setting out to do. Muslims and Islam in general has a tradition of contribution where we're fueled by our faith and fueled by our passion, excuse me, to make the world better. We want to help humanity with the whether it's our talents or things within our religion that could really benefit other people, regardless of whether you're Muslim or not. So one example of that is we have a publication on mindfulness, and that's actually one of our most popular publications. We have an infographic that the creative team created around that as well in an infographic video. You actually mentioned yesterday that was like your favorite. It's my favorite. So that's something that, you know, anybody could really consume and benefit from. The art papers on Takiyah and Islamophobia, those are really important, too, but they are reactive. We're kind of trying to catch up to this narrative that's already out there, you know, trying to reclaim it. But there is room for and what we really want to do is set out to make the world better. You know, again, rekindling that Islamic tradition of contribution.
Muhammad Ali is like an American hero, and his biggest, you know, driving force, his biggest motivation was his religion. And so, you know, that's just one example. Coffee was like, you know, invented by Muslims or discovered, I would say, by Muslims. Imagine your days without coffee, if you're coffee drinkers. Soap also, you know, so it's just like, again, just focusing on the contribution aspect is really important, too, in the future. All right, so thank you so much for attending Combating Islamophobia with Marketing and Design. If you have any questions, please feel free to approach us. We're here at the conference. Thank you very much, and thank you, Zina and Linda. Thank you. Thank you.
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