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S3 E4: Ramadan is coming to an End | DoubleTake Ramadan Special
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For many people, our Ramadan excitement is high at the beginning, lower near the middle, and high again toward the end.
But the question is: Where does that excitement go after Ramadan? More importantly, if one of the signs of an accepted Ramadan is the continuation of our deeds after the month comes to an end, if one of the signs of an accepted Ramadan is the continuation of our deeds after the month comes to an end, does that mean there are consequences to slowing down? Is this dip inevitable, or is there something we can do to stop it?
In this episode, host Mohamad Zaoud talks to Ustadha Lobna Mulla, Board Member at Yaqeen Institute, about overcoming the post-Ramadan dip.
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This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. For many people, our Ramadan excitement is high at the beginning, low near the middle, and then high again toward the end. But the question is, where does that momentum leave us after Ramadan? And more importantly, if one of the signs of an accepted Ramadan is the continuation of some of our deeds after the month, what does that tell us about those of us who slow down after Ramadan? Is this dip inevitable? Or is there something we can do to stop it? Welcome to another episode of Double Take, a podcast by Yaqeen Institute about the questions and ideas around Islam and Muslims that give us pause. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. If you like what you hear, or want to give feedback to the team, please let us know directly using the link in the show notes. Today I spoke with Ustadha Lubna Mulla, one of the board members at Yaqeen Institute. We spoke about the post Ramadan dip, but also about the value of our deeds in general. Ustadha Lubna is the former National Tarbiyah Director of the Muslim American Society, and she currently serves as the Muslim Chaplain at UCLA. She worked as an accountant for 10 years until she began her career as a mother. Ustadha Lubna moved to Egypt for three years with her husband Sheikh Suhail Mulla, and studied Arabic, Quranic recitation, and Islamic Sciences under Azhari scholars. She currently resides in Los Angeles, California, with her husband and four children. Enjoy the episode. Ustadha Lubna Mulla, As-salamu alaykum and welcome to Double Take. Wa alaykum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh. I can't believe it's taken this long to have you on the show. Alhamdulillah, Inshallah, this is the first of many episodes. Inshallah, Inshallah, I'm super happy to be here.
Jazakallah khair. You know, after we actually practice many rituals in our religion or many obligations in our religion, there's this sense of doubt whether or not this deed will be accepted. So for example, after we pray, we say Astaghfirullah, and you know, that's kind of our default position. And in Ramadan, we hear a lot of hadiths and hear a lot of scholars talk to us about making dua for our Ramadan deeds to be accepted. Now, I'm glad you're a trained accountant among other things, because I think you'll add some science to this. My question to you is, how do I know if my Ramadan was accepted? Allah, that's a beautiful question. Really beautiful question. How do we know? SubhanAllah, you know, we put our trust and our hope in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, and I think hope in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's mercy is one of the greatest qualities we can have. The fact that we're still making dua that our prayer is accepted, that our Ramadan is accepted, our fasts, our qiyam, the fact that we're making dua is not inshallah to make us so fearful. Oh, no, I don't know if all of these things were accepted. How do I know? And now I'm just in the state of limbo. SubhanAllah, I think what's beautiful about all of their ibadah that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has ordained for us, it's a matter of tarbiyah, of personal development and growth, that we are doing these acts of ibadah which are good for us. They're helping us to be timely, to structure our day, to be disciplined and restraining ourselves, like for example, from eating. And so we're developing from these acts of ibadah, and then at the end of the day, yes, I have this sense of,
okay, I'm not going to be arrogant about it. I'm going to be humble. Maybe Allah will accept, but I'm going to have my hope greater than my fear. And I think that is what keeps us motivated to continue. Ustadha Lubna, I know there needs to be a balance between hope and fear, and that goes with many things in our life. But if our default position is that doubt, because the first thing that we do after salah and the first thing that we do after even Ramadan is to give charity, you know, to expiate our sins or to eliminate that doubt. If our default position is that Allah knows if this is accepted, how do we gain that hope in Allah? And how does that supersede or overcome the fear that it's not accepted? Because the reason I ask having this concept of doubt in our deeds being accepted can probably lead to us reducing the amount of deeds that we do. Or you know, it's an uncomfortable position to be in. So how do we dial up that hope in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala accepting our deeds? Absolutely, Barakallah. I think that's a great point. If I don't even know it's accepted, what's the point of doing it all the time? How do I keep that? You know, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala opens every surah, the beginning of the Quran with Bismillahirrahmanirrahim, in the name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful. So he reminds us time and time again of his mercy. And we know the scholars have stated that Allah's mercy is mentioned so many more times than his wrath. So number one, that's kind of my default position is yes, okay, I'm always going to ask for it to be accepted. And that's a passing thought and I default to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's hope. So that's number one because he describes himself subhanahu wa ta'ala as being the most merciful. And then second, you know, what's beautiful about this balance,
just to kind of keep us humble, keep us grounded. In one sense, if I'm relying only on my deeds, but I know that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is merciful, I feel at peace. You know, maybe I didn't have khushu'a in my prayer. Maybe I didn't have concentration. I didn't have the amount of focus that I wanted in my prayer. But I'm going to rely on Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's mercy for him to accept it from me. So that's beautiful. And at the same time, if I only rely on my deeds and I'm not thinking about Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's mercy, like it's a guarantee. I prayed, I prayed, I get the reward. I fasted, I fasted, I get the reward. Then how does that keep me humble and just kind of keep me on my toes and always remembering it's Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is the one that's going to elevate that deed to be accepted. So I think both ways, it's a win-win situation. I'm going to come back to Ramadan and this whole conversation's relevance to Ramadan and the dip that we usually face after Ramadan in terms of our deeds and our spirituality. But before I do that, since you've spoken about this concept of hope, I want to mention a hadith that I'm not going to say makes me uneasy, but I just I have many questions and I almost feel like going Fatwa shopping to find the answer to this hadith. It's a hadith about the value of our deeds compared to the value of Jannah, where the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said according to Aisha radhiallahu anha, follow the right course, be devoted and give glad tidings. Verily, none of you will enter Paradise by his deeds alone. They said not even you O messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wasallam, the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said not even me unless Allah grants me his mercy. Know that the most beloved deed to Allah is that which is done regularly, even if it is small.
So what I understand from this is the value of Jannah is far greater than the value that our deeds, I guess, have. So as again as an accountant, if what I'm doing is not going to get me Jannah, how do I make sense of this concept? If my deeds are never enough? Right, it makes sense. You know, not to look at this in a negative way, but let's put it in a positive way. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala also reminds us that if we were to count all the blessings, we wouldn't be able to again going back to his Hisab, accounting, you know, going back to my background. You wouldn't be able to. Are we grateful every day that we're breathing? Are we grateful every day that all of our trillions of cells in our bodies are working as they should be in harmony? Subhanallah, all the digestive system and the circulation and all of the things working as planned. Are we grateful every single day that when we open up the tap that we have water? You know, there's just an infinite amount of things that we're not always grateful for. Alhamdulillah, you know, many of us we do wake up and say Alhamdulillah, but to really acknowledge all the blessings, the people in our life, you know, the articles of clothing that we have, socks to keep our feet warm. You're mentioning that where you live, it's getting cold. There's so many things that we may not necessarily be thinking of and on the flip side, we may sometimes give away to complaining which again is normal. So in that sense, it's not necessarily that maybe, you know, the value of what we're doing is not good enough. It's just that there's so many blessings that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala gives us. Are we, is the quality of our deeds good enough? Are we even matching that with enough thanks or are we forgetful? And Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala told us that we are forgetful. He also told us that every son of Adam sins, but the best of sinners is what? Is the one who repents. Sorry, that's hadith. I apologize.
That the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam told us that every son of Adam sins, but the best sinners are the ones who repent. So we have this acknowledgement of our nature that we're not always going to be grateful, that maybe we're not going to do things always in the best way. But again, when you go back to relying on Allah's mercy, okay, what do I have to worry about? Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is the most merciful. I'm going to try to do things with Ihsan, but I'm not going to get bogged down by the fear. I have heard it in a way where we're rewarded for the effort, not for the results. Is that the right way to kind of take this? Because I still feel uneasy, in all honesty. Like if I am definitely going to rely on Allah's mercy and I'm grateful and I am practicing my religion and I'm trying my best and the other thing I'm doing is I'm trying my best with all the rituals that I know and I'm learning new things on a regular basis. But if there is a limit to the value of my deeds, just subconsciously, I'll probably do less. Only because I know that I have to rely on Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's mercy. So is it fair to say that the value of my deeds will never get me to Jannah? And is it fair to say that it's probably better to invest in Allah's mercy as opposed to the physical actions day-to-day? I'm just trying to, I'm really just trying to marry these two things. Yes. Yes. No, barakallah fikah. I think it's great because it really makes us settled in how we should frame something. So I think absolutely, you know, as we look at, we used to look at our report cards. Okay, A for effort. I still wanted that A, but I got A for effort, you know, in my project or what have you. So absolutely, just that that tarbiyah, that practice of getting ourselves to do things with the best of intentions,
but you know, the outcome may not always be there. Putting the reliance on Allah's mercy and doing our best effort, I think is the number one way to go. And why wouldn't I want to rely on Allah's mercy? I don't want to rely on myself. It's not that I'm going to all of a sudden give up and not do anything because I'm worried Allah is not going to accept. I have hope in Allah's mercy because he told me he's merciful and he's the most merciful. So I'm going to do my best effort and I'm going to leave the rest up to Allah's mercy. And if you think about it, one of the companions that was promised, was described when he walked upon another set of companions when Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasalam was sitting amongst them, Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasalam pointed to this man and said he is a person of Jannah. And as it turns out, one of the companions wanted to spend time with him. He wanted to see what was the secret, what was so special about this man that he's going to go to Jannah. And after spending time with him for three days, following him around, he didn't notice anything unusual. He didn't notice extensive qiyam, he didn't notice extra fast, anything. So we asked him, he said, Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasalam said this about you that you will enter Jannah. What is your secret? What is it that you do? And he mentioned that every night he removes any grudges from his heart and he forgives people. All of that to say that, you know, we don't have to be this super, you know, Ibadah machine. We do our best. We have the best of intention because at the end of the day, it is what's best for us. But if we fall short and we will fall short because we're human, we put our reliance on Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and that's actually a gift. I want to be able to rely on Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. I don't want to have to rely on my actions being perfect because then that would make me very paranoid. I'd be worried all the time. I don't know if it's good enough. Did Allah forgive me? Did I do this well enough? Did I fast in the best way? Did I get mad at anyone? Maybe that broke my fast. It really would make us so anxious. It wouldn't be healthy.
So Allah tells us about his mercy to put us at ease inshallah. Thank you. Jazakallah khair. That puts it to bed for me and I want to hone in again on Ramadan. Typically what happens in Ramadan, and I think the way to measure it is through the lines at Tarawih. Yes. Typically at the first few days of Ramadan, the mosques are full. Then there's a law. It's like an inverted bell curve. And there's probably two or three lines and then come towards the end, you know, the last ten nights, especially the last few nights. It kind of peaks again. That's typically what happens. I guess you could say look Ramadan's a marathon and it did, you know, you need to end properly just like you need to end your life in this life properly. So I guess I could see that. But how do we manage the dip? Not necessarily during Ramadan, but post Ramadan. How do we ensure that the bell curve doesn't just drop into a cliff after Ramadan? Yeah, and that's a great point that you mentioned because this dip is something we anticipate. We hear a lot of lectures and talks. How do we keep the momentum going? Sometimes we hear this talk before Ramadan so that we're kind of just wrapping our head around this whole scenario and trying to get keep ourself motivated. Oftentimes we hear it towards the end of Ramadan and oftentimes this is the first program we'll watch. So it's an important issue and part of it again. Yes, we should plan on keeping something that we've gained from Ramadan, like maybe praying to Hajj or maybe just increasing our fast throughout the year. Whatever it is, sometimes what happens when that drop happens and it will drop, you know, as human beings again, you know, you can't run a marathon all the time and Ramadan is a beautiful marathon. You have all this energy. Everybody's doing the same thing around you. They're fasting, you're in a bed together, subhanAllah.
So it's very motivating. You cannot recreate Ramadan outside of Ramadan. So to expect that and then to be disappointed and upset with yourself as if you're a bad person because you didn't keep up that same momentum. It's not natural. Allah Subhanu wa Ta'ala created these seasons for us. You know, you have this peak being Ramadan, before that you have Shaban and then you have Rajab, sorry Rajab and then Shaban, you're building up. You're revving up, you're getting yourself ready, you're thinking about Ramadan. It's amazing and then you have this pinnacle and then afterwards, of course, you have the Hijjah. So again, you know, you have Muharram. So you have these seasons, but just like you can't have summer all year long, you're not going to have spring all year long. You're not going to have Ramadan all year long. So while we yearn to keep some growth and by the way, it may not necessarily be in the forms of classic, classic Ibadah like fasting and Salah, but maybe it's going to be some type of spiritual growth that you've gained. Maybe you became more patient. Maybe you become more disciplined in something, in your time or maybe in helping around the house with your family, for your family. So looking at the gains in all aspects, I think is important and not beating ourselves up for the dip that is natural to happen because we're only human in it. You cannot recreate Ramadan and keep it going all year long. So Ustada Lubna, if I was to ask for some practical tips regarding the dip, my issue is it's very, very hard to maintain the same level of intensity during Ramadan, after Ramadan. I guess mainly because there are many elements that allow for that intensity to happen. So everyone around you is fasting, you know, the mosques are full, shaitan is locked up, but we know from our religion that the best deeds are those that are small and consistent.
So how do I maintain some level of consistency post Ramadan? That's great. I think making a plan of what maybe are three areas, for example, that you would like to increase and improve upon post Ramadan. Making a plan, so let's say for example, I want to read more Quran. I want to keep more consistent in my reading of Quran. Download an app that helps track, you know, your progress. There's an app called Habit Share, for example, and you can share that with a friend. Every time you read your amount that you want to read for the day, your friend gets notified and you can share it with a few of your friends. I don't remember the limit, but keeping a buddy system, I think is one way to really help us be consistent, you know, planning is one and keeping a buddy system. Same thing with fasting. It's nice to be able to say either, you know, kind of encourage your community once a month to do an iftar together. So, you know, kind of pointing out a Monday or Thursday to fast or maybe the one of the three days or all three days in the middle of the month, 13th, 14th and 15th to fast. Doing that as a family, again, doing that maybe in your MSA or in your school. So creating a support system for your Ibadats that you want to continue and improve upon, I think is really helpful, inshallah. Jazakallah khair. I wanted to ask you a something off the cuff, if you don't mind. What's your ideal Ramadan beyond the Ibadah? Because I know that Ibadah is part and parcel. So we all have intention to read the Quran and we have intention to pray the night prayers and obviously fast properly during the day. But is there anything in your circle that your network, maybe on HabitShare, enjoy doing that others can benefit from? What's an ideal Ramadan beyond the Ibadah that will increase Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's mercy? Like I'd love to hear some of those experiences.
Yeah, Jazakallah khair. So far it hasn't been anything to be honest that I've shared with others or that I've created the support for but two in particular that I really try to work on during Ramadan and I find it to be really very empowering. One is to be patient. So I think that's really important. I think that's what we're all looking for, especially when we're hungry, especially for me at least getting that end of the day headache that comes. It just creeps upon being patient with other people's maybe impatient. You know, some of us have younger children, they're fasting, they want to fast, but they're still not in control of themselves. So being patient, you know, with our elders, with the young ones, subhanallah, and just not letting ourself get angry, I think is really important. And the other again is just thinking the best of people, trying not even for a second because we have shaitan locked up, but we have our own, we have our own, I don't want to say demons, but we have our own kind of our own waswasa that comes from our from our thinking, our negative thinking. So just always trying to think the best of people, not looking down on anyone. And so inevitably, it'll come up a little and I just trying to reframe things that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala knows what's in people's hearts. We never know what people's situations are. So those matters of the heart, I think are so important to practice in Ramadan so that when we come out of it, it's something inshallah that we can actually grow from and be a level up and kind of continue and hopefully to always improve upon inshallah. Amin, thank you. My nine year old niece usually makes some input in every one of our episodes. Alhamdulillah, I have enough nieces and nephews to last a few lifetimes. But I have this nine year old niece is very inquisitive. And she's, she's got a question for you.
That is, at school, and in the future in university and in society and on TV, society generally speaks the language of self confidence. Give yourself a pat on the back. You can do this. When it comes to our religion, after our deeds, we typically get the sense that, oh, I'm not sure if this thing is going to get accepted or not. So it sounds like it's counter to what I'm hearing in day to day life in a modern Western context. So my question to you is, as a nine year old niece to a great uncle, how do I how do I balance between these this kind of pedagogy or this kind of thinking in Western societies and our religion? Am I supposed to give myself a pat on the back for doing good deeds? Or am I supposed to doubt whether or not it's going to be accepted? SubhanAllah, I think I think that's an amazing question. Because again, it's kind of framing this whole discussion that we've been having once again. And I would say, SubhanAllah, yes. And just always remember that Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala is the one that can give you the success. Pat on the back. Absolutely. Be confident. Absolutely. People ask all the time, you know, we've been taught sometimes in our tarbiyah, sometimes in our Muslim organizations, be humble. You don't have to brag. That's great. But when you know, when it comes to feeling good about yourself, that's great. And it's important because, SubhanAllah, being humble is something that's that's part of our deen. But we also have confidence. We also, you know, we have a companion. When Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam saw one of the companions, I think, cross, what is it?
Pollinating the date trees. And he asked him not to do or why are you doing that? So he thought he shouldn't do it. And those trees didn't come to fruition. And then the next day, and then I think that companion asked Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, Was that a commandment or you just asking me? And he told, no, I was just asking, you know. So, SubhanAllah, we have to be confident in ourselves. We should be proud of the work we do, but know that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala is the one that grants us that success. That gave us the ability, afforded us the time, afforded us the health to be able to do those things. So again, it's that balance. Be proud of what you do. Speak up. You're applying for a job. Have your brag sheet. Your resume is bragging about your accomplishments. So we should always, in my opinion, lean towards being proud with that added humility, knowing that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala is the one that facilitated all of this. And if Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala didn't want for any of this to happen, it wouldn't happen. It's just that we, you know, tie our camel and leave the rest to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala. I think in a nutshell, we lean towards self-confidence, being proud of what we're doing, and knowing that Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, through His mercy, is the one that's going to grant us the success, not only in this life, but in the hereafter, inshaAllah. JazakAllah khair, and may Allah accept our Ramadan and all of the deeds during Ramadan. Thank you so much for that, Ustada Lubna. We're going to change gears now and ask you a couple of rapid-fire questions. You've got five seconds to answer each one. And the first one, I kind of already know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway. I'm asking, so your favorite qari of the Quran? You lived in Egypt, so that's why I think I know who it is. Oh, you said favorite qari? Okay. Favorite qari, favorite reciter of the Quran.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Abdul Basit, for sure. Okay. I grew up listening to it and being intrigued by its final. Every time I would go and I was so little, that's just classic what you heard everywhere. Yes, subhanAllah, he's a storyteller, you know, even when he's reciting the same verses, any other reciters reciting, he just takes it to another level. SubhanAllah, amazing. The last book that you were reading? The last book, The Brain Inflamed. I like to read a lot of health books, and that's one of them. It talks about anxiety and depression as it relates to health and that inflammation of the brain. So that's the last book I read. Can you give me like a cheat sheet summary? Super, super amazing. And again, gives us a lot of hope about mental health, that the body when it's inflamed due to the predisposition of our genetics, that inflammation can go anywhere. So we're high stress, we're maybe eating a lot of refined foods. We're in a state of, you know, maybe not doing a lot of gratitude in our life. So our body can literally get flooded with cortisol, cytokines, so our body gets inflamed. And depending upon our genetics, that can lead to a heart attack, it could lead to a skin disease, it can lead to digestive issues. It can go to our brain and cause a lot of, subhanAllah, not 100% of cases, but in many cases, it can contribute to mental health situations like anxiety, like depression. Even some cases of schizophrenia, subhanAllah, which is, you know, really severe situations. So it gives a lot of hope that if we can bring the physical aspect, the spiritual aspect into gear, we can hopefully help to mitigate and maybe in some cases even prevent anxiety and depression, inshallah. SubhanAllah, sounds very interesting.
The other way to kind of address mental health is through a really good Egyptian breakfast. Can I say your dream breakfast is an Egyptian breakfast? Or is there another thing that's your dream breakfast? Spot on, that is my dream breakfast. Foul and tahini and some cucumbers and tomatoes, all the good stuff, pickles. Awesome, thank you. And if you could have dinner with one living person, who would that be? Oh, wow, if I could have dinner with one living person. That's a good one. There's too many people. I'm a very social person. I like to have dinner with a lot of people, but let me pick one. Dr. Jamal Badawi, he is, mashallah, an icon of da'wah that we grew up listening to and he's very special. He's in Canada, may Allah preserve him and his family, mashallah. Ameen. And if I was to say an embarrassing masjid story in the life of Ustadha Lubna, what would that look like? Wow, one just popped to my head. So this is pre-hijab days. I show up to Jummah and I didn't bring a scarf with me. And I think, subhanallah, in the area, and it's still in the same masjid today, our masjid is not big enough to host Jummah. So they rent a hall every Friday. And so there's no like basket of extra hijabs. Okay, so I look in my car and I find a T-shirt. I literally wore a rag over my head. I tied a T-shirt over my head so that I can pray Jummah. That was super embarrassing, but I did it. I was like, I'm praying and I'm not going back.
I guess that instigated your journey to conveying that Allah's mercy, you know, is what leads to an accepted deed. Do you have a favorite Ramadan memory with your family? A favorite Ramadan memory? You know, surprisingly, and I'm sure maybe you've heard this, but during lockdown, we missed out on a lot of the socializing. But one of the honestly, honestly, this is going to sound like I'm plugging for yaqeen, but I think one of the fondest, most recent memories that comes to mind is just all sitting on the couch. You know, the lights are off. We have a blanket over us and we're watching Quran 3430 together. It was really, really special. I loved hearing my kids' insights. I love us sitting all together. We had nowhere else to go and it was just amazing. We still watch it, but kind of throughout the year. But that was a very special time, Alhamdulillah. Mashallah. Two final questions. One, an easy one. What's the biggest misconception people have about LA? Oh, what's the biggest misconception? That's a good, I mean, there's a lot of conceptions that are kind of true. So, it's a, I think sometimes people think it's so diverse and that means a lot of things. It's so diverse and maybe really out there, so to speak, that there's kind of no place to raise a family or, you know, you can't really have a thriving Muslim community, but I think it really lends itself to a lot of beautiful Muslim communities. You know, the temptation is to go to the beach, to go out there, and we do, Alhamdulillah, we pick our times of the day to go. But the Muslim community, I think, is amazing. It's very welcoming.
You know, we have our issues like anyone else, but Alhamdulillah, I think the diversity kind of really makes our communities very special, Mashallah. Mashallah. One final question, if you had unlimited resources to put together the ultimate service for Muslim parents and communities, what would it be? I know right away, a Muslim Sesame Street. Tell me more. Coming in a few years, I hope. You know, Subhaylah, I grew up on Sesame Street, and it's always been my dream to be part of something, to revive that. It was so creative. It was so special. Watching it for many years, and just recently I was on a trip, and I was watching a documentary on it. I was so inspired. I was like, this is something that was really revolutionary for the time. It's still very special today. You know, all the reruns. And I think it's something that we can take base off of that idea and do something even more special, incorporating Quran, hadith, character. Sesame Street already had character, alhamdulillah, but just kind of adding more elements to it, it can be something really powerful, inshallah. Inshallah. I look forward to it. And inshallah, it's done before my kids grow up. So looking forward to seeing it come to fruition. Jazakallah khair, Ustazah Lubna. This is the first of many episodes we'll have you on that we'll take for sure, inshallah, ya Rabb. Inshallah, jazakallah khair for having me. Thank you. Wa alaykum. Thank you.
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