DoubleTake Podcast
29 / 50
S3 E3: Are we failing new Muslims? | DoubleTake Ramadan Special
Listen on your favorite podcast app!
We often hear that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, but conversions to Islam aren’t necessarily the main reason for this growth. In fact, despite the appeal of Islam to many people who seek the truth about God, joining a new faith community can be difficult, and some converts struggle to hold onto their religion.
What are some of the challenges that new Muslims face? What can Muslims do, as communities and individuals, to help converts on their journeys? What role can Ramadan play to strengthen their resolve?
Join host Mohamad Zaoud as he sits down with Sh. Abdullah Oduro, Head of Convert Resources at Yaqeen Institute, to discuss the convert experience.
Listen on:
Apple
Google
Spotify
Other platforms
Share your feedback!
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. We often hear that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, but conversions to Islam aren't necessarily the main reason for this growth. In fact, despite the appeal of Islam to many people who seek the truth about God, joining a new faith community can be very difficult, and some converts struggle to hold on to their religion. So what are some of the challenges that new Muslims face? What can Muslims do as communities and individuals to help converts on their journeys? And what role can Ramadan play to strengthen their resolve? Welcome to a new episode of Double Take, a podcast by Yaqeen Institute about the questions and ideas around Islam and Muslims that give us pause. If you haven't already done so, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. If you'd like to share feedback, or you'd like to support the show this Ramadan, check out the links in the show notes. Today, we're exploring the experiences of Muslim converts, and with me is Sheikh Abdullah Aduro, the head of convert resources at Yaqeen. Sheikh Abdullah is a first-generation Ghanian native who converted to Islam in 1997. He graduated from the College of Islamic Law from the University of Medina in 2007, and he's currently the imam at the Islamic Center of Kapel and Louisville in Dallas, Texas, where he resides with his wife and four children. Sheikh Abdullah is part of the team at Yaqeen that provides unique and comprehensive resources for new Muslim converts and institutional convert care. Sheikh Abdullah, assalamu alaikum and welcome to Double Take. Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Good to be on Double Take. And jazakallah khair for joining. There's a lot to cover, and your area of expertise is a very unique one. Sheikh Abdullah, I'm personally a little removed from my days of dawah booths
and handing out pamphlets, inviting people to Islam, but the last time I checked, Islam was still the fastest-growing religion in the world. And Pew Research says that Muslims will grow more than twice as fast as the overall population between 2015 and 2060, and we're expected as a religion or as a community to pass Christianity as the largest religious group in the world in the next 30 or 40 years. The global population of Muslims is expected to go from 1.8 billion in 2015 to about 3 billion in 2060. Subhanallah. Now, the research shows that this is largely due to fertility rates and similar factors, but Pew Research also found that religious switching or conversion isn't expected to have a negative impact on Muslim population growth, i.e. people leaving Islam. All of this to say, are we doing a good enough job inviting people to Islam and keeping them here? Or is there a growing problem of converts leaving Islam? Is there a hole in the bucket, Sheikh Abdullah? Bismillah wa-salaatu wa-salaam wa-raahim. I think I would say yes to all three of them. We need to do, I mean, all of us collectively and individually need to do a... There's room. There's always room for improvement. I'll say rather than a challenge, I'll say it's an opportunity. For, you know, I don't want to say the average Muslim, the everyday Muslim, the one that's consciously Muslim and trying to do their best, or those that, you know, Muslim by name, but they have co-workers, and, you know, they have some kind of epiphany or connection to their culture makeup of being a Muslim. And they have some idea what that means, i.e. the difference between being a Muslim and a non-Muslim, right, from the belief, the God perspective.
There's always work to be done. I mean, when it comes to our character, even to where it comes to, you know, are we punching in on time and saying that we punched in at that time, and people are saying when it's time to pray and you're at work, when you're at a gathering, that's work and directly that could be done when you try your best to do your best, you know, and people that may not understand your faith may think the way that you practice is the faith. So there's always work to be done. Always work to be done on that level. Now, converts leaving Islam, yes, there's a growing number, especially now, but it's important to realize that there are people that are coming to Islam as well. So that hole in the bucket, we hope it's a slow drip, but there is a hole in that bucket and that's due to the first question, whether it's negligence, you know, the Muslim community or the Muslim him or herself. So yes. Jazakallah khair. I'm going to drill down a bit more on to what leads, I guess, converts to leave Islam. I met a convert once who told me they became Muslim despite the actions of Muslims, not because of it. And a lot of other Muslims, you know, a lot of other converts, like you hear really good stories of people coming to Islam through, you know, their passion for music leads to their passion of the Quran and then they become Muslim or others, you know, go on a journey across the globe and find themselves in Turkey or in Jerusalem or whatnot. But if I was to ask you, what are the major reasons people who come to Islam actually leave Islam? What would the answers generally be? When we spoke to Dr. Yusuf Shahood in season one, I believe of Double Take, he spoke about the doubts that lead Muslims to, I guess, jump off the cliff and leave Islam.
And one of those issues was the culture or the characteristics and the dealings of Muslims and the way Muslims act that turns people off Islam. So in your experience, where would you rank that as a problem compared to other problems? And what are those other problems that lead converts to leave Islam? I would say ultimately that's correct. I mean, you know, there's one thing I teach in the workshops that I used to teach with this non-profit that I have for converts. And then here in Mashallah and Yaqeen, just being, you know, working with a group of illustrious people coming together. We, you know, have we did a survey and sent that survey out to converts to the best of our ability and got some interesting news back and it kind of goes back ultimately that I tell converts all the time. And even those that are seasoned Muslims or those that are, you know, were born Muslim and then had an epiphany and then decided to start trying to practice is separate the doer from the doctrine. You know, you understand the doctrine. It's important for you to learn the doctrine, to understand what does Islam mean? Like what, what, what makes me different from any other religion? Right? What is that pillar that makes me a Muslim? And it's the first pillar of Islam, ultimately the belief, the creed, who is God and who is he not? You will find people that have that creed, but their actions, just as you mentioned a key word, you mentioned culture. Culture, you know, you'll find a lot of times when people become Muslim or those that were for our first generation American, meaning that their parents came here from another country and they were born here, such as myself. You know, some may say second generation. You see culture as a bad thing. You see it as something that is a hindrance to progress of a nation, of a people, of a neighborhood, of a religion. But culture ultimately is there. It's a good thing.
But sometimes when they prefer it over religious practice, over who you can marry, over who you can befriend, that's where it comes unattractive. And that's where the convert, the first generation America, American becomes disenchanted with religion. They put the religion and the culture together, and that's where it becomes a problem. So, yeah, I would say the actions of people that practice a certain culture can be disenchanting, therefore causing the new convert, the convert to leave Islam or stay away from the community, still have the faith in Islam. But over time, that faith can easily, let's use the word, disintegrate. So I would say that's the first. Amongst others that come after that, after the practice, you know, of practitioners and of Muslims and how they act, I would say their own observation of what we call shubuhat, you know, we call doubts. Even though the first is a cause of doubt because you see this person acting a certain way. I never forget those one times, SubhanAllah, a brother was telling me he was given dhawa on the street. And I use this example all the time, amongst other examples, but this one hits home because it really, we have to ask ourselves a question, especially those that have come to this country and trying to make a way for themselves, but they make it in a way that is not permissible. You know, he was given dhawa to this brother and the brother was ready to accept Islam. And he said, you know, I bear witness, you know, repeat after me. You know, when you give somebody shahada, someone that wants to become Muslim, you tell them, repeat after me. So he says that I bear witness, I bear witness that there's no one worthy of worship except Allah. He says it and I bear witness, I bear witness that Muhammad, when he hears the word Muhammad, he thinks of the guy at the convenience store, man. The one that when he walks to the convenience, firstly, the one that's selling a whole bunch of liquor in the convenience store. The one that's selling lottery tickets, the one that's selling these magazines that if our kids see him when they're about to pay for candy, they're looking at this right now. He's like that Muhammad. I don't know, man.
You know, then he was hesitant, you know, doubtful if this is really true, if this is the correct faith, why is Muhammad doing this? Didn't separate the doer from the doctrine, but in the same token, it was a practitioner. But secondly, we'll see the person becomes Muslim. They start to read in the Quran about certain things that make conflict with their previous worldview. So for instance, when talking about, you know, when talking about subhanAllah, you know, وَإِنَّ شَيْءٍ إِنَّ لَيُسَبِهُ اللَّهُ وَلَكَنَ تَفْقَى تَسْبِهًا When Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala talks about that there's everything that praises Allah, but you don't understand how it praises Allah. So it may be certain objects that praise Allah. How can a rock praise Allah? I don't understand that. That kind of goes against my intellect. So those are certain things that if they don't have haven't had an opportunity to learn the foundations of faith, and I particularly believe learning the names and attributes of God, you know, that's where these certain concepts, gender relations when it comes to, you know, the wife and the husband, when it comes to marriage and, you know, men being able to marry and things of this nature. Sometimes it can bring doubts if there's no coach there for them. So I would say ultimately the actions of the Muslims and then secondly, when their own journey and discovery without having someone there to coach them and to answer some of their questions. So thank you. Thank you for that. I have a couple of converts in my immediate family and when I look at them and their journey, Alhamdulillah, one of them was basically thrown out of his household when he became Muslim. And the other one to this very day and is a grown man with married kids. He's still disowned by a lot of his siblings. But I look at their faith, frankly, they're a lot more religious, a lot more practicing, and I would say a lot more spiritual than I am.
And they're Dawa machines, man, like they're knocking on doors, they're speaking to people, they're like, they're mashallah, you know, and one of them is a professional, he's an accountant, and he, every one of his clients, all of a sudden has kind of taken a leaf from his book and become more religious. I'm talking about Muslims who, you know, are becoming more religious. So I look at that and I say, you know, what really could I have added to these guys lives? I mean, Alhamdulillah, I've been a relatively good Muslim in their eyes, I would say, but I haven't done anything special. I certainly haven't contributed to them learning any part of the deen more than they would have learned in other ways through books. What am I, what am I not doing? Like after someone gives shahada, and there's the big takbir at the mosque and everyone's high fiving the brother or sister, what, what's the gap there? You know, what is my responsibility as a practicing Muslim towards converts? Because I feel I honestly, I feel like I've, these guys have succeeded despite my negligence. So is that an anomaly or is there a real issue there of people neglecting converts after they become Muslim? There is a real issue. I think it's important that, you know, with communities, every single Muslim in any community has one of, you can either offer your time, your expertise, or financial support. One of the three. What do I mean by that? So we talk about financial support. So if you find a lot of Muslims, you know, someone becomes Muslim. There was one time, subhanAllah, there was a girl, she was, you know, kind of, how do you say this, a pimp. Okay. And she became Muslim. And, you know, with that, there's going to be a level of replacing.
You have to replace, you know, the way she made her money and possibly provide it for her children. If she's in that community and she comes to the masjid and she's like, look, this is what I was doing. I'm trying my best. Husband's never been in my life. You know, which is common, not only amongst, you know, kuffar, quote unquote, as we would say sometimes, unfortunately, but even amongst Muslims, you know, the men are just, they're not handling their business as they should, providing for who Allah has provided for them, children and wife. Who's going to help them? You know, and this is what we see in the zakat, even as a category of zakat, Muallafat Qulubuhum, the one that those that are inclined to Islam, you can use from zakat to help fund them and take care of them if they're inclined to Islam. Though, but these people have just become Muslim and they need the support. So financial, helping them to go through community college, three or four brothers, you know, or sisters, helping them to pay for their community college in their locality or in college, or to get some type of certification. When their non-Muslim family sees that, they're going to be like, your church is helping you do this? Wow. Okay. That brings a level of confidence, a level of Izzah and might to that convert, right? So that's the financial support that many Muslim communities can easily do, especially for the sisters that have children. If they're not getting that financial support, like many of us have needed, you know, when we come to this country, four or five brothers come together and they say we're going to get this house for this brother, you know, and the next the next group, the next the next one up is it. So there's a level of teamwork and love it of working together to help each other. Well, this individual has changed their life. They made real life decisions. As you mentioned your relatives, the trials and tribulations have caused them to make a choice. That's the financial. What about time? Like for instance, Sheikh Mohammed, you sometimes a convert just needs an ear, man. They just need someone to listen to them. They just need someone after every Juma. Let's go get a coffee. 30 minutes. There's a show, allah.
I mean, we all I mean, we didn't contribute in it, but there was a show called Cheers. I don't have your racial cultures. I got some gray in my beard. Shake out, you know, yeah, I'll give that to you. It says sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name. We hope that that's the message. And if not, it's it, you know, it's at least one brother one sister to where they say, you know what a joint? What are you doing? You know, let's go. Let's go get a coffee real quick. How are you after every Juma? Let's go every Juma. Let's just go for every, you know, Friday prayer. Let's just go get a cup of coffee for an hour. And then, you know, you know, we can go about our business something that's consistent to where you can give them your time. You don't have to be a shiq. You know, it's just a matter of you giving some answers and it's, you know, the smallest thing that you'll tell them that you're so used to will help them go a long way. So time and then expertise as one brother, you know, and where I was in Houston, Mashallah, we call him the enforcer. He was a rough brother. Like Abu Dhar radi Allahu Anhu, he would say it was on his mind. He would he wouldn't hold back. Right. But this brother, if someone converted to Islam because he was a carpenter and he used to help build the mosques, right, he used to help, you know, build the mosque. And if there was some work that needed to be work, they need to be, you know, some renovations on the masjid. He was a guy he would see a convert and he said you need a job. Okay. Do you know how to paint? Okay, you now check this out. Oh, you don't know how to paint. Okay. I'll teach you how to paint. And then after that you work for me. Right? So that's the expertise. He's giving him a trade for him to teach his to provide for his family. It was another brother was a physical therapist, Sheikh Mohammed in Houston, physical therapist, and he would pay for their schooling for about a year, two years to get their associates degree with the condition that they work for him for two years. So you're getting expertise. Usually a lot of times when you apply for a place in your resume,
you have to have two years, two years experience. He provided that for him. So again, time, financial support and expertise. I think this is every single individual has one of these three. I think it's huge. It's a life-changing experience for Muslim because you're being quote unquote practical and you're implementing many verses of the Quran inshallah. Sheikh Abdullah, I appreciate you laying it out. And those three things you're absolutely right. Every Muslim has those it might take some sacrifice like giving financial support is sacrifice because there are other priorities that you typically have giving your expertise is also sacrifice because not only are you just supporting a new Muslim, you're sponsoring them. You're taking kind of responsibility and ownership, not just kind of sitting on the sidelines and giving them a voucher. What I noticed was not on your list is religious guidance. Are you saying that's not kind of a priority for me as a as a layman or is this is this part and parcel? Is this a like kind of like a prerequisite to those three things? In actuality, all of these three is a religion. I mean if someone is going to and that's why I was mentioning that all these they're implementing so many verses of the Quran when they see when they see you in action, not just theory and this is a problem with eat with with us with we as students of knowledge is that Mashallah we're on the minbar and we're great, but when it comes to their daily life and they reach out and there's no one there to help them. Where's the implementation of these ayats? Where's the actualization of it? When there's financial, when you're trying to bring the hearts together is a category of zakat or it's someone that's you know, Allah says in a generality. So when you're helping this individual you could tell them,
you know, you're sitting with them at Starbucks and then he's like Mashallah that he says, wow, you know brother you've come through for me and my mom saw how you really helped me. You pick me up. You drop me off every Friday after Juma, you know, I don't even have a car and thanks for buying this bicycle for me or you brothers came together and bought me a van the brother just passively. He says, you know, there's a verse in the Quran. He says and assist each other and good and righteousness and righteousness and good deeds. Wa birri wa taqwa, right? Wa la ta'awwilu ala al-ithmi wa al-ardwan and don't assist each other in transgression and harm and sin, right? So he's actualizing the verse. So when you do these things, this is Islam, you know, sometimes we separate it and we say, okay. Yeah, he's helping me, but where's the deen? No, him helping you as long as he has a he or she has the right intention that they're doing this for Allah. This this is Islam. So with that if the brother for instance or sister has a question, you know regarding for instance, you know, the sister is helping this sister get a an associate's degree and nutrition or if she wants to become a registered nurse or physical therapy or radiology or cosmetology or something like this and it's five sisters that come together each of them pay $5,000 for example, you know, she can may have a question regarding her children and child support and her husband. What does Islam say about this? Well, you know, let me take you to our Imam. Now, there's a connection to the Imam of the mosque. The sisters have served as a liaison between this convert and the Imam and that's how the community is established and everything that they're doing is Islamic. So there's an implementation of these ayats and verses that can be that is that is really the fruitful part of their journey as a convert and also and also the Muslim as well. It increases their Iman because they feel that they're being effective. They're doing something and they're not like a student of knowledge,
Shaykh, whatever the case may be, but they're trying their best to be a good Muslim. And how do you know you're a good Muslim? Through the Quran and the Sunnah. You know, I haven't given even though I have some converts in my circle, haven't given this topic enough justice, I would say. And typically when I think of support for converts, I think of okay, teach them how to pray or teach them how to learn the Quran and there are people out there who do that. So it's basically serving as a conduit, connect them with the local Quran college and and Bob's your uncle. But you're actually saying the relationship between a Muslim and a new Muslim is a lot deeper and it's not limited to just teaching the Quran in theory, but it's through the practice and and you mentioned those three things finance, time and expertise. What would you say to someone who hasn't done this throughout their life and they're also insecure about their religion, you know, like they're praying and they're fasting and whatnot, but they don't feel like that is my responsibility. What would you say to someone who who's kind of been sitting on the sidelines on this topic? Like myself for argument's sake. The first thing that I think is important for us to realize is if we love Islam, if we love the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam, I'm going to take two different people. I'm going to take the you know, I like to use these terms too much because it has a has a negative connotation. Sometimes let me give a prelude to this term and then I'll give the two different categories. Religious. Religious just means someone that is making an attempt to please God. And they understand who God is. I believe that I don't believe God is a son, a daughter. I don't believe he's like a human. I believe that he is above the seven heavens. I believe that God is as he says in the Quran
and as the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam says, although I don't know all of it, but I believe that and I believe Islam is the way. Okay, the one that is trying that does jihad and nafs والذين جاهدوا فينا لنهضي عنهم سبلنا and those who strive in our path. We'll guide them to our way to strive in our path, the action and the intention. That's the religious person. You pray three times today. You feel bad about it. Tomorrow you pray for you feel bad about it. You did five on Friday. You feel that's the religious person. Now those are levels because they have that initial intention. So that's what that's the first thing. So the first one is the religious person that is openly trying to you know, they're praying five times a day. They're a little more seasoned in their practice, right? So this individual when they're dealing with the convert, we have to realize that individual has to realize that they love Islam. If they love Islam, they love the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam. They love Omar bin Khattab. They love Abu Bakr. They love Uthman. They love Ali. They love Zubair. They love Zayd bin Thabit. They love Hind. They love Khadij. They love these companions. The first jeal and generations all of these individuals were converts. So the convert phenomenon is before the seasoned Muslim born Muslim phenomenon. We tend to forget that sometimes. The first generation of Muslims were converts. So if that's the case when you see someone come into the masjid, or you see someone in the store and they're ringing your clothes up or some food and say, you know, I converted to Islam a lot of times we subconsciously subconsciously look at it like, oh, wow. This is a new thing people are converting. No. No.
The first generation of who this verse was revealed about were people that converted to Islam. So that religious person needs to realize you love those companions. The ones that face that same reality are the ones that are converting to Islam. Now, let's look at the second category of people. Those people that they're not really praying. They're not, you know, they love being a Muslim, but he may have or she may have a girlfriend or a boyfriend and things of that nature, right? They see that Islam. I believe it, but it's just too difficult or, you know, God knows our intention. Right? Those individuals when they look at these companions that they love as well to realize that there are converts to us that they are converts to Islam as well. But also if this person was to become Muslim because of you. That's a huge responsibility. They're going to look at you as a role model. I mean, let's keep it real a lot of these guys that you know, and women and men and I'm not and I'm not here to judge, you know, all of us have our challenges many times about half of the classes. However, the new the pop, you know, the the attendance of the classmates that I would teach the new Muslims throughout the years. You would see the guy come in with his friend who is a girl and not Muslim, but it's really his girlfriend or it's the girl that comes with her classmate and he's a guy to the class, but it's really, you know, the guy wants to marry her and she's trying to convince him to Islam and she's like, look, I like you and all but there's over my dad's dead body that he will allow this to happen. Right? So you need to become Muslim and then this can possibly work. Those individuals that you know that are on that's for that second category. They need to realize that subhanAllah it could be somebody that you really care about.
That's been watching you for years. That is impacted by the way that you act your character, you know, and they're going to look at you as a sheikh. They're not going to look at the even though you take them to the Imam. They're going to look at you as their sheikh. So you representing Islam. That's some choices you really have to make and you're going to make mistakes and they're okay with that, but they respect you because they've known you over the years. They seen you as a co-worker. They seen have you how you've acted with bad customers, etc. They seen your character, but you're not praying. We all have choices to make but this could be a huge opportunity for you to strive a little harder inshallah. So I think it's really, you know, for the first category looking at the companions of the first generation of converts and that this is not a new thing and for the latter to understand your co-worker, your friend, you know, your brother-in-law, you know, you're the older brother of his wife. He may look at you as a huge example because for instance, I don't know your younger sister praised you a lot in your absence. So he's indirectly looking at you like oh wow, this is the role model. You know, we know that the constants in this life are death and taxes, right? I'd say the other one is just bad Muslims. There are bad Muslims just like there are bad people from other faiths. And so as you're speaking, I'm thinking it's our responsibility as those who are quote-unquote religious to offset the bad experiences that converts have with, you know, people who act poorly and it's our responsibility to show them the version of Islam that is closer to the theory and that is good character and being sincere and humble and supportive and collaborative.
And so I don't think this is the more you speak of and I'm talking honestly on behalf of myself here. It's not a luxury, like it's not something that you can kind of just say, oh look, I supported a convert. It is a responsibility and unless we stand up, then really the only version of Islam that converts will see are the version that you might see on TV regularly or you know, you might hear of stuff or you know, go to the souk and someone's kind of. So I think Muslims just like other faith groups have good and bad, but it's our responsibility as those who you know, want to be religious and want to be, you know, seen by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala as doing our part to actually do our part. So I want to talk about Ramadan. Since we're in Ramadan, Sheikh Abdullah, talk me through your experience as a new Muslim during Ramadan. What was Ramadan for you in the early days of you being Muslim? In the early days, Ramadan was, it was hard and easy. It was hard because you know, let's keep it honest and real, you know, I was hungry. You know what I'm saying? I was hungry and I had to think about God while being hungry. It kind of seemed like an oxymoron. Like how can I think of God and I'm thinking of food man. I mean like this what how is that going to work? But I had to dig deep, you know, the first couple of days it was rough, but it was easy because I understood the concept of sacrifice. You know when I be at work, you know, I used to work at the hospital as a surgical tech. So I used to be at work and it was like man, this is hard. Some of the even some of the doctors and nurses would be like, how are you? How are you doing this while fasting? Are you conscious? Like are you able to think are you sharp?
Well, long story short, they saw that I was sharper because some of it was indirectly like the fear of like, I don't want them to use my religious practice against me when it came to my performance. And so it really I really focused a lot on that as well. It primarily was easy for me because I was just hungry. I was just hungry to try my best to please God. I mean that was really, you know, once I believe Islam was the truth primarily Tauhid, like that God is not like any of his creation and that he sent me a blueprint and a framework to practice and I'm going to make mistakes within that framework of practicing. That is what really did it for me. I was like man, I'm so blessed to have this and I'm so blessed that you know, I was given a little push to make the right choice to continue on with the fact that I'm going to make those mistakes throughout that process. So it was kind of hard and easy. Going to the mosque and seeing Muslims that I didn't see the whole year was amazing. And we're all praying together and we're not moving and it was it was a lot at one time. So you come in, you walk, you see them all lined up and you hear the man singing. I mean, it was like singing, right? It was like he's singing the holy book, you know, coming from a I'm West African man. You know, this sign back here is a sign. It's actually a sign from the Ghanaian Ashanti tribe. You know, that actually means a accept God. There's no one, you know, except God. I only fear God. I didn't cry. It means a ginyameh. It means a that's what it means. So like only fear God. So coming from that background, we're singing hallelujah and amen and you know, we West African we get down so they you know, they scream and you know, I'm saying when you hear this a I mean you hear the Quran being recited. It's a beautiful voice and then after the prayer is over everybody's chilling and talking and sometimes eating.
It's a it's another level, you know, it's another level, especially when you see the diversity sometimes granted, you'll see that it's sometimes very homogenous one nationality, but that takes within myself to transcend and to break down those barriers of you know, I'm the only black person here. Although there is a reality that does take place with that. Looking at it from the at the concept from the concept of from the lens of universality of Islam made it easier for me to digest just as it did for Malcolm. Rahim Allah, you know Malika Shabazz, Rahim Allah when he went to Hajj, he noticed that they were eating from the same plate people with yellow hair, white skin, blue eyes all eat from the same plate that the universality of brotherhood is was profound for me. So I really saw that a lot. So it was easy and hard. And I can just I mean, it's overwhelming for someone who's been Muslim their whole life to go into the masjid and there's you know, hundreds of people they haven't seen for a year. How would you say our responsibility as a Muslim changes towards converts during Ramadan compared to outside of Ramadan? Like are we supposed to go the extra mile in terms of those three things that you mentioned finance and an expertise like what would you say I need to do in Ramadan for a convert that I don't usually do outside of Ramadan? Make an effort to get to know them. You know, if you see them in Salam alaykum, I haven't seen you here or Salam alaykum, you can tell when someone's new to the community, especially if you've been in that masjid for a long time, you're going to realize a new face, you know, sometimes you may see from their garment. Sometimes you may see from the way they act. Sometimes they may have, you know tattoos on them. Sometimes they, you know, maybe a certain nationality that you're not used to seeing in that mosque because it's a very homogenous community, one nationally primarily. From the way that they eat, from how they ask about the cuisine, you can tell. So when you do that, so what's your name brother? Or what's your name sister? Are you from this city? You from this area? Okay. Well, my name is Muhammad. I've been here for a while.
I just haven't seen you so it's really a pleasure to meet you. Are you new to this community? Really? Okay. You don't want to give 20 questions, but at this, you know, so you want to introduce yourself, say who you are, talk about your culture, you know, just let your guard down and just get to know them just as you would as someone at your job. So when you see them again, you remember their name, you remember the previous experience and you build off of that. And from that, maybe you can, especially Ramadan, you know, make an effort to, you know, invite them to iftar one day. You know, the more you're in contact with them, and that's the beauty of Salatul Juma'ah in community. The more you have informal, informality matters. You're informal with them. You just is kicking it. Just talking with them on a consistent basis. You may open up to them. They may open up to you. And that's how the organic brotherhood and sisterhood happens. And that's that's one of the ultimate maqasid of the shara'ah, of the Islamic objectives. It's the i'tisam bihamdillah, to come closer to the rope of Allah. And that's the ta'awwil al-biru wa taqwa, assisting in goodness and righteousness upon that. So I would say the community member, you know, you know, break, you know, as I always tell the converts and I tell the seasoned Muslims, accept the awkward moments. Look forward to the awkward moments. You know, when you see that person sitting by themselves, get up, go there, get to know them. They're not. What are they going to do? What are they going to just, you know, tell you, shoot, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to talk to right now. I'm busy. You know, they may. At least you know that they're stressed out and maybe you could talk to them a little later. Let those awkward moments happen. It's probably two minutes, three minutes. Maybe they may be introverted. You'll never know unless you make the attempt to welcome them to your community by speaking to them. So I think that's the first step. When you see a new face, just introduce yourself first. Don't give them 20 questions, but introduce yourself and make an effort to get to know them. And you're going to make mistakes throughout this process. People are different.
Right. So understanding that I think is important, making that effort to just have a conversation and see where it takes from there, where it goes from there. Jazakallah khair. I wanted to ask about your work at Yaqeen because, mashallah, Yaqeen clearly has so many different aspects of the research that the group does. One is focused on doubts for seasoned Muslims. Your area is around converts. So tell me more about what you're doing to help people like myself on the other side of the world who are surrounded by a few converts to make my job easier to support them and to support the converts. Alhamdulillah. So with the name Yaqeen, we know the name Yaqeen means certainty. So when you find a lot of times a convert or the person that has come to Islam, that level of Yaqeen is there. They're like very certain in Islam as a, you know, as a religion. You know, they have what is called the Iman and Wajib, the obligatory aspects of Iman most of the times. Right. But, you know, maybe a week down the line, a year down the line, because of that first reason that we said the community or pressure from the family that they have, they're very close to, can affect and take the layers off of that Yaqeen and certainty that they had. So we want to, as Yaqeen, dismantle doubt and nurture conviction. Right. One truth at a time. So nurturing that conviction, the convert resources department is primarily with nurturing that which is there. Now, hoping that the doubts don't come. And if they do, because they've been properly nurtured, they know how to adequately deal with it. So what we've done so far is, Alhamdulillah, we have a set of videos that deal with the five pillars of Islam, the who, what, when, where and why. The how we can find in many places, mashaAllah, but really understanding the who, what, when, where and why of the shahada, of zakah, of salah, of fasting, right, of hajj.
Understanding those W's of these pillars really goes a long way. So you're touching on the educational and the enrichment of each one of these pillars and the five pillars of Islam, in which Islam was built upon as the Prophet ﷺ mentioned. But also concentrating on, we have, you know, coming out with a curriculum, inshaAllah, for organizations and institutions. If they have misajid or even organizations that want to help converts, you know, as Yaqeen provides for imams, Yaqeen provides for conviction circles, giving those materials to those demographics that may need some help. That is sound in the Quran and the Sunnah with the team that we have, and then also working with other organizations as well. So providing that curriculum is what we're working on also. Also working on a book for converts inshaAllah ta'ala. Kind of similar, but touching on the last pillar. The lifestyle of a convert, the lifestyle, you know, to educate the seasoned Muslim community about the new Muslim experience. We also have, subhanAllah, like this Ramadan coming up in 2022 and beyond inshaAllah. We're going to be, we just did a webinar with different converts and different organizations and individuals on the first but not the last Ramadan. It's out now, the first Ramadan but not the last. Talking about the importance of reflect to connect. You have to reflect on certain things in your life in order to connect. Reflecting on Allah in order to connect with him. Reflecting on the life of the Prophet ﷺ in order to connect to his way of life to where you can practice. Reflecting on the Quran, reflecting on your family, reflecting on your friends. Thinking about these things, particularly in this month of Ramadan, can serve as a catalyst for your newfound faith to spring out strongly. So we have a number of carousels that will be coming out through Instagram and through the different vehicles and mediums that Yaqeen has. As well as certain lectures that we will be providing and webinars in the future inshaAllah. So we're working diligently. We have a team that we're working diligently to provide these resources. Bi'it Nila'i ta'ala.
That's awesome. I have a nine-year-old niece that pops up in every one of these episodes. And in this particular episode, yes, alhamdulillah, I have 32 now. 32 nephews and nieces. You know, my parents are blessed with 32 grandchildren. I was going to say, she's only nine, but she has this burning question around new Muslims, around converts. She wants to know in a nutshell what's her responsibilities to a family friend who's just become Muslim. Be there for them with a warm attitude. Be there for them with warmth. You know, the most important thing is consistency. Consistency, consistency with those behaviors that naturally they love. So be there for them with warmth and love. I think that's very, very important. Sheikh, I really appreciate your time. And I'm really glad, I'm really glad that Yaqeen has taken this step of focusing on converts because for a very, very long time, my gut feeling as just a seasoned Muslim, as you put it, is that we do a great effort at giving the high fives in the masjid when someone becomes Muslim, but then we neglect the brother or sister who joins Islam. And so I would say you are lifting and your department and your team is lifting a massive burden of many Muslims who are surrounded by converts. May Allah reward you for your efforts because frankly, I feel like this has been for very, very long an area in our community that's been neglected. So Jazakallah Khair.
And now with the formalities to the side, I'm going to ask you a set of rapid fire questions that you only have five or ten seconds to answer, inshallah. You studied in Medina, so I have a feeling what the answer is going to be. But first question off the list is your favorite qarah, your favorite reciter of the Quran. My favorite qarah, I'm old school Sheikh, Wallahi, Hussary, we got to go with Hussary sometimes. It depends on the surah. Between Hussary and Minshawi. If I say surah Maryam, tell me. Oh, yeah, I was I was I was there was a comma there. Hussary, Minshawi. You said Maryam, Sheikh? OK. Not a lot of people know. Muhammad Ayub when he was the imam in the haram in Tarawih. Hands down. Hands down. If anybody knows what I'm talking about in Al Medina, when he was leading that year, I think it was one year in Tarawih in the haram, hands down. Muhammad Ayub. And then also Sa'd Al Ghami. So those are my qarah. What's the last book that you were reading? Rahimahullah ta'ala. I'm sorry, say it again. The last book that you were reading? The last book that I was reading, The Boy Crisis by Warren Farrell. I'm really concentrating a lot on masculinity. Sorry? Yeah, tell me more. Yeah, I'm really concentrating a lot on masculinity and how that ties into Islam. So Warren Farrell, this book is called The Boy Crisis. So it's talking about, you know, masculinity and how there is a crisis with our young men and it's affecting, obviously, society and themselves. So the connections with with dads and their sons and how there's a social pressure on men,
the concept of, you know, sacrificing your life for what and how that's a sign of masculinity from past and present. So it's a real crisis now and trying to kind of dissecting through what is really a crisis and what really isn't. And it could be a sign of masculinity. So it's an indirect book to women and mothers as well. But it's phenomenal in the way that Warren Farrell speaks about it. He used to be involved with the feminist movement. If you type of his name, you'll see that he's very, very thorough. A lot of people have interviewed him regarding that. So I'm really I'm concentrating on this, this transition when young men turn to males because it ties into the convert reality as well, because, you know, you're changing your lifestyle from one way to another, but you still are who you naturally are in this case with males. So, yeah, the boy crisis. OK, you mentioned earlier that we need to embrace the awkward moments. What's the most awkward moment you've gone through in the masjid? There was one time I went to and this was Tarawih. I was a new Muslim. And, you know, I learned, you know, you're supposed to pray. You come closer to your brother. Many of us have had this situation. You come closer to your brother. So I came close to my brother and he stomped my foot. Like he stomped it. It hurts. And like first I was caught off guard. So then I came a little closer and he stomped it again. And I was like, what did I? OK. I remember his face now, but my foot got stomped out. Yeah, I really got stomped three stomps. And that was that. That was that was it. So that was very awkward. I didn't know what I did wrong. But I wasn't like, sto, I to do. You know, it wasn't anything like that. It was just like, sto, I think my toe touched him. OK.
You know, OK. I, you know, at the beginning, I thought he thought it was an insect because it just touched him briefly. I thought I thought I was a critter. But then. I'm a lot of those best, but I think, you know, my foot. So that was it was so awkward because I had to check my knee. I check my attention like, OK, I'm here in prayer, but somebody stomping my foot. OK, I'll do this. So that was definitely not the situation. That's pretty awkward. That's as awkward as they come, I think. If there was one person you could have dinner with who's passed away and he can't be the prophet, who would it be? So Allah, he was some of them. Oh, there's there's there's a lot. Man, it would have to be and it couldn't be the prophet. So Allah, who are they? What's on them? Yeah, I would say, you know, my mother's still alive. I definitely say. Can it be to go for gold? Absolutely. My father and sister. My father and sister. My sister is nine years younger than me. She passed away from cancer. My father passed away from a stroke and really to get the opportunity for them to see, you know, how I am as a Muslim, how I've changed from the way that I was. Yeah, I think definitely, definitely my father and sister. Jazakallah khair. I'll do one final question. Actually, two. And related to the topic. So if there was a young Sheikh Abdullah who had just become Muslim and you're in there in the masjid with him, what's your advice to a young Sheikh Abdullah who just became Muslim? Oh, a young Sheikh Abdullah, that just be a young young Abdullah, young Abdul. That was my name for some before I just became Muslim.
Yeah, I would tell him, look, it's a it's a it's a marathon. It's not a race. Take your time. Separate, separate the doer from the doctrine. Keep learning. Keep learning your faith. The house of Allah. It's Allah's house. No one owns it. And, you know, make sure that when not if, when these trials come to you from your family and friends, that you have that connection with Allah. And there's one or two people that you can reach out to, man, because it I like to tell him a lot of times it may get rough for you, knowing that it it most of the time will, but it eventually will go away. Inshallah to Allah. Jazakallah khair. One final question. If you had unlimited resources and you could focus on converts, what is the ultimate resource or program that you would do for new Muslims? Oh man, for new. What's the ultimate program that I would do for new Muslims? That's very, very interesting. I would make sure that there are a lot of offline programs for converts in these spaces of. Worship. Why? Because I, I, I believe in third spaces as long as they serve as a buffer to the masjid. And I think that's very important because sometimes, you know, we make third spaces as though it begins and ends there. Third spaces are very, very important because they're very relevant to the reality of the young professional, et cetera. But those that are in charge of the third spaces, it's important that, you know, for Ramadan, Tarawih, let's all go to the masjid.
So funding those efforts and empowering these young professionals to have these spaces, but also creating that type of cultural connection with them. I'd also make sure that there's a fund for converts as well. For those that have, you know, converted to Islam and they want to go to school, they need some help with their life just to get a kickstart or they're changing their life. That there is some sort of fund for them. I think that is very, very important. So I think I think physical locations, centers, you know, whether it's third spaces or creating those mechanisms, having some fun within the masjid that cater to the convert slash, dare I say, youth, because there's a lot of similar experiences that they have. And then also some kinds of some kind of funds are, you know, funds or money that's allocated or nonprofit organizations that are there for those that are trying to change their lives because they converted to Islam. They're trying to leave off what they know is not pleasing to Allah. Jazakallah khair. Sheikh Abdullah, honestly, I appreciate it on behalf of all of the seasoned Muslims who have failed converts. I appreciate the work that you're doing. And Jazakallah khair. May Allah bless your work and may Allah give us the strength to support your work as well. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is great work, Mashallah. May Allah bless you. May Allah bless you.
Welcome back!
Bookmark content
Download resources easily
Manage your donations
Track your spiritual growth
1 items
1 items
1 items
25 items
9 items
