Dogma Disrupted
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The Lies About Palestine
With a mounting death toll of over 1500 lives, we are yet again witnessing the oppression of Palestinians unfold before our very eyes. While the the media buzzes with news articles, think pieces, and commentary, there is much being lost on the context and crux of the issue—primarily, the liberation of Palestinians from an apartheid regime that is committing genocide. Why is it so hard to explain this without being attacked?
Dr. Omar Suleiman and Dr. Ovamir Anjum join Imam Tom Facchine to contextualize the history leading up to this moment, and unpack the influence of language and framing of how this conflict is told.
Read the paper, “The Palestinian Struggle Through the Prophetic Lens”.
Want to listen on the go? Check out Dogma Disrupted on your favorite podcast platform.
Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated using AI and may contain misspellings. Assalamualaikum and welcome back to Dogma Disrupted. Palestine is reeling once again. Today has been a bloody day for the people of Gaza. Over 1,500 people have been killed, many of them children. And we are in a moment that feels like a familiar moment, where Muslims are not even allowed to feel their pain with all of the media and how everything is being covered. So to help unpack what this means for us, and to help navigate the issues that are unfolding as they're unfolding very, very quickly, we've got two very special guests with us today, Dr. Omar Suleiman and Dr. Omer Enjem. Welcome both of you to the program. Let's have a little bit of background. What's been going on recently? What's the situation currently? Inshallah ta'ala, I'll start, bismillahirrahmanirrahim, salamun alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Over the past few weeks in particular, the agitation, the incursions on al-Aqsa, the settler violence, and all of that has been really increased. And then obviously, you know, things exploded a few days ago, with the attack that came from Gaza, you know, on the border of Gaza, and, you know, the southern area of Israel. And as we start to see the occupation increasing, and the agitation increasing, and the catastrophe unfolding before our eyes, I think one of the things that we've noted this time, is that there is a finality that is sought, there is an open check that's been given to genocide.
Gaza is encountering a catalog of war crimes, that seems to mean absolutely nothing to the powers that be. And you essentially have a population, and the Palestinian people, obviously, Palestine is all occupied, but Gaza, I think many people forget, is 60% refugees, you know, I have family in Gaza, they didn't start out in Gaza, 60% refugees that fled from other territories that were occupied by Israel, from the Palestinians. And this open air prison has been basically an experimental laboratory, where the most sophisticated weapons in the world are being used against the most desperate population in the world. Whether you speak in terms of population density, or you speak in terms of infrastructure, there is no place in the world like Gaza. And for them to now be shut off from all directions, to have their water supply shut off, to have their power shut off, to have their fuel shut off, and to be bombed from every direction, there is absolutely no schism that is recognizable to the people of what the pattern of these bombings are. You're guessing every night whether you should try to spend the night in your home, or you should try to go next door to your family's home, cousin's home, or whatever it is, because you can't figure out where the bombing is going to be next. And now we have proof of the use of chemical weapons. So Human Rights Watch released just a few hours ago that Israel has been using white phosphorus. And if any of you have ever seen children after a white phosphorus attack, it is absolutely horrific. The long-term consequences, we know that it was used against the people of Syria. And this is not the first time it's been used against the people of Gaza, but to have it
confirmed at this point, and to still not have a word being spoken by the American administration, or a word about Palestinian suffering in mainstream media, has been particularly outrageous. And I think that as we are witnessing this unfold before our eyes, there's a sense of betrayal that I think the Muslim community is feeling, and that Palestinians are feeling in particular, because people are parroting the worst types of tropes about Muslims and the quote-unquote Arab savages that we've seen since 9-11. And the framing has been atrocious. The erasure of the Palestinian voice, the erasure of Palestinian humanity, and you're seeing it from your friends on social media, you're seeing it from your boss at work, you're seeing it from your company statements, you're seeing it in the NFL statement, you're seeing it in the NBA statement. So it's hitting you from every direction right now. And I think that it's that much more important than for us, those of us that have a voice, and that means everybody on here, to use that voice to call out to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala and sincere du'a, and to use that voice with whatever platform that you have, whatever position that you have, to uplift the Palestinian voice that is being rapidly silenced. One of the things that your comments reminds me of to highlight is that the status quo is so violent, that this is something that, you know, part of the framing and the deception and the framing is that this just happened out of nowhere. This happened on October 7th, or started on October 7th, that this just is some attack or offensive, you can't divorce it from the larger context of what has been going on. You know, that the everyday existence of Palestinians in general, and people in Gaza specifically, is so violent.
And that violence is at every single turning point and every single opportunity erased. That to see all of this outpouring of sentiment, it's disgusting, and it's a slap in the face. And that's not to say that we don't have sympathy for victims, obviously, there's a certain common denominator of human life, you know, that is sacred and we respect, but how tone deaf it is, and how completely oblivious it is to the larger context. It's quite maddening. It's quite maddening. I want to say, Tom, on that, like on that point, it's really interesting that human rights languaging and framing is used to beat up on the Muslim community globally and domestically constantly, but suddenly, when that human rights framework of apartheid and the legal threshold of apartheid being reached, or structural violence and freedom of movement and all these other things that institute massive acts of crimes against humanity and violence against the people are ignored when it's no longer, you know, potent against the Muslim community, but instead it's against our oppressors. So it is absolutely enraging and infuriating. It's hard to take the West seriously on the values it purports to symbolize and advance. We've had one of the things that I know Paul Williams has highlighted, language that was just a year ago used to talk about Russia and how to cut off electricity and to cut off food and to cut off medical supplies constitutes war crimes. When it applies to Russia, it seems like that's a recognized fact, but then if someone does it against a Muslim or against a Palestinian, then all of a sudden it not only becomes okay, but it becomes justified as necessary violence to keep the brutes, the savages, the terrorists,
whatever, however they're being, you know, framed and maligned at the moment in order to keep them in line on their own land, in their own homes. So that brings us to a point that I think is really, really essential, which is talking about media literacy in general, right? I think that, you know, things have seemed to shifted. I think a lot of people do understand that there are strong biases in the media, especially younger people who are more on social media than traditional news outlets. But you know, there's a long, long history, and I know Dr. Wehmer and I were talking about this off camera. There's a long, long history to the media machine and drumming up, you know, hitting the war drums, right? Beating the war drums. And this goes back quite far. So maybe Dr. Wehmer, you can give us a little bit of a sense or a context. How much can we trust coming from the media in the first place? Jazakumullah khair. Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. We complain to Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, we don't complain of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. That's first of all, the way of a believer. And this truth is something that you find in Gaza and in Palestine. You see the courage and faith in Gaza, and the entire Ummah is put to shame. So even though it hurts my heart to hear, to see, and this is not new, this is 75 years of oppression and state terrorism, 75 years of humiliation and betrayal.
But the more I have, as I've grown up thinking about this problem, I have learned that Palestine is the beating heart of the Ummah. It is what keeps us as an Ummah together. And it breaks my heart that our people in Palestine, I don't like to say Palestinians are Palestinian, they're our people. They happen to be in Palestine. Their houses were taken, their lives were destroyed. And they're not the only ones, there are people in Kashmir, people in Uyghur, and Rohingya, and more and more people. But our people who are in Palestine, they are guarding our sanctities, they are guarding our holiest shrine, they are guarding the first Qibla, they are guarding the place that is the most praised, most frequently praised in the Qur'an. And so when they show their courage, you know, despite all of that, when I talk to people from Gaza or hear from people of Gaza, and especially Gaza of course, but all of Palestine, my Iman increases, not only Iman, my knowledge of my faith increases. I see miracles of Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, because Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la centered in the Qur'an, a land that he knew Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la 1400 years ago, that will always remain the center. The Prophet Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la spoke of Ta'ifah Mansura, a group that will be given aid by Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la forever. And in some narrations, that is a sham, Syria, that is Baitul Maqdis and what is around it. And that's a miracle. The Prophet Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, it is as if he is looking at what is happening now
and he is giving us instruction, this is the Ta'ifah Mansura, this is where you're going to find faith. If you want to understand Islam, this is how you're going to begin to understand Islam. And when I look at the Qur'an, and this is what Shaykh Omar and I wrote in the article that was published a couple of years ago on Palestine, if you look at the Ghazbat of Badr, if you look at how Rasulullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, who was Rahmatan Lil Aalameen, when he took up arms, if you look at his reasons that are given in the Qur'an, those reasons apply 100% to the people of Palestine today. It is as if Allah has kept Badr alive among us, so that whenever we pick up the Qur'an and we want to know what is the Qur'an talking about, you have an example. This is what it means. Why? Because if you think about, what does Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la say about Badr? This was the justification of why ultimately later Badr took place. This is why Rasulullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam was sending traditions to cut off caravans. But the reasons why Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la from above seven heavens justifies and gives reason to why Rasulullah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and the poor Muslims were doing so, what Allah says is that they ask you about the violation which had occurred, which is the context of the ayah of Shahrul Haram, and they say, this is bad.
Allah says, yes, but what you are doing, you're obstructing the path of Allah. You're obstructing, you're expelling people from the sacred mosque, preventing people from visiting it, and then, expelling people from their homes. And Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, you find that this motif of expelling people from their homes that appears again and again in the Qur'an as if it is one of the greatest sins that humans commit against each other and against the people of faith, right? And what's interesting is that all of these four things are found in Ahl al-Falastin today, in the struggle of brothers and sisters, our people in Falastin. So to me, hard and heartbreaking and heart-wrenching as it is, they're also holding up this symbol of Islam. They're holding up the courage of Islam. They're showing us, the rest of the Ummah, you know, Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, when the British and the French came and cut up the Muslim Ummah into secular territorial nation-states with the intention of destroying us, Falastin, they left hurting. And it is for that reason that we cannot forget what they have done to us. It is as if they left an open wound that reminds us every day of what we can be and what we were and what we must be in order to gain the favor of Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la again. So I see this irony, you know, on the one hand, it is one of the most heartbreaking
place, but on the other hand, Falastin is the only place in the Muslim world where you see faith beginning, where you see light, where you see courage, courage that stares down these monsters who fabricate lies after lies, right? Now I'll get to the question you asked of misinformation and disinformation. Vietnam was a lie. We know that now as historians. In fact, the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was based on a false premise. The Japanese wanted to surrender. We now know that because of declassification of documents. The first Gulf War was a lie. People were being taken from incubators and being killed, and that's why we needed to go. Americans, right, needed to go and kill Iraqis. Second Gulf War was a lie. There were no weapons of mass destruction. What was happening in Afghanistan was a lie. Despite all of that, right, we are used to, and Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la tells us, When a wicked person comes to you, you do not believe what they are saying. You have to investigate. You have to take that in your own hands. What if this wicked person, this wicked institution has lied to you and to the rest of the poor and the oppressed in the world for a century? And then now it tells you that 40 babies were spearheaded, and the president gets
up and says he saw the videos of 40 babies being beheaded. Imagine the level of fabrication and lying when a president of a country puts his credibility on the line for the false propaganda from the tabloids that he's getting. Imagine the level of lying, imagine the level of wickedness, right? But we are being told that you have to believe this and forget the 75 years of international community again and again, hundreds of United Nations resolutions that are ineffective, all vetoed. You have to overlook all of that in order to believe the new lies that we are being told. But I see them not through the eye of rage, even though it is outrageous, but I see that as a sign of faith, as a truth, because the same tactics were being used against the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam. And if Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, who loves his Prophet more than anything else and anyone else and honored his Prophet and allowed his Prophet to suffer, then we have to say that people of Palestine and the people of Gaza who have to put up with these lies, but through this they are being honored by Allah Subh'anaHu Wa Ta-A'la, so I pray for them. I find them to be a treasure trove of instruction, of inspiration, and lessons. You know, when I read the Qur'an, I want to know, where is this happening? Where is this struggle?
And I find that in people of Palestine and the people of Palestine. Dr. Oymer, I think there's, just to add to some of the context that you were providing when it comes to the reasons to not believe the outlandish claims of the media and the outlandish framing of the media, in addition to its track record, right? And the conflict of interest that is fundamental to the war machine and the military industrial complex and the lobbyists and everything that's going on. We have a record of dehumanization of Palestinians and Muslims in the area, right? I mean, literally on record. We have Netanyahu, we have other people saying right from their mouths, like video evidence, audio evidence that they're going to do this and that, and this is their tactic. We have it, you know, very clear evidence that they refer to killing Palestinians as mowing the lawn, right? We have- And animals. And animals, yes. We have, just the other day, one of the ministers calling it, we're fighting human animals. Like, this is all on record and all for, they admit it. They admit it. There's no, there's no doctored evidence. There's no sort of deep fakes videos or, or Photoshopped images. This is something that they freely admit. And so how would you possibly trust the word that comes out of these people's mouths? When it comes to the scope of things, when it comes to the order of things, the magnitude of things, what's going on, at the very least, everybody has to be cautious and take everything with 17 tablespoons of salt, not just a grain of salt, a whole salt- And be vigilant and understand that it's all about how you're framing things. Even the Israeli pets are granted more humanity and mercy and care than the Palestinian human beings that are living in their own homes and getting bombed and starved.
Yeah. Imam Tal, I want you to, you know, Dr. Owaima may Allah reward you for those words, very powerful words. You know, they're talking about our grandparents. They're talking about our parents. They're talking about our brothers and sisters. They're talking about, you know, I think there's an Imam in the United States, and I want you to think about the compounded cruelty of this. There's an Imam that we know in the United States, who lost 15 members of his family in one night. But he does not want to go public yet because of the repercussions to him and his immigration status or whatever it may be, things coming against him. Like, think about the compounded cruelty of this machine of propaganda, playing on the tropes of Arab savages, Muslim savages, beheading babies and, you know, rape and all types of things. Let's agree that the killing of children is evil. Let's agree that rape is evil. Okay, why are you turning a blind eye to Palestinian children being pulled out of the rubble in pieces? Why are you turning a blind eye to all of the standards that you just iterated a few months ago? You know, it was interesting, you're talking about the double standards of Russia. I was looking at this tweet by Ursula von der Leyen, who is, of course, the president of the EU. And this is from October 19th, 2022. We're literally just a year removed. And she says, Russia's attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war crimes, cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity and heating with winter coming. These are acts of pure terror, and we have to call it as such.
If you just literally replace Russia with Israel, you will be branded an anti-Semite, and you will be shut out of your company, possibly lose your job, possibly be kicked out of your university. You will be attacked, you know, by all sorts of shady Zionist watch lists. You will be called all sorts of names. And so the double standards are not coming out of nowhere. I mean, it is clearly building upon a fabrication of Islam, a fabrication of the Muslim that set the pretext for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq. Like Dr. Wehmer said, American propaganda is Israeli propaganda. Israeli propaganda is American propaganda. This is exactly how the process of dehumanization works. That's why you can't name a single victim of the Iraq War if you're in the United States, because those stories have been kept far away from you. And so when people try to put you, and I'm saying this especially to the viewers here, because you're getting pressure from your friend circles, you're getting pressure from your local media, when people try to put you on the back foot, do not let them make you forget the past 75 years or the current days in which their hypocrisy is showing itself clearer and clearer and clearer every single day. You know, these reductionist talking points that remove us from an entire history of colonialism and occupation and apartheid. And to what Dr. Wehmer said about the, you know, subhanAllah, the present inspiration, the example, the people of Palestine refuse to go away. They refuse to go away.
They are the most resilient people, our brothers and sisters in Palestine, the most resilient people on earth, the people of Gaza in particular. They are the most resilient people on earth. These people dare to go to Fajr in the rubble. You can still see them calling the adhan on a masjid that was destroyed last night. Imagine going to Fajr and you woke up and all nine of your family members are dead. And you still walk to Salatul Fajr. These people, once this is all over inshaAllah ta'ala soon, and we hope for a complete removal of the blockade and freedom from occupation. But if it were to return the way that it usually does after these massacres take place, you know what they're going to do? They're still going to get married. They're still going to have their weddings. They're still going to have their aqeeqahs. They're still going to pursue their education. They're still going to memorize the Quran. They still find a way to live. What type of a people can deal with that trauma and still move forward? They are a miracle from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. These are special people. You know, I was looking at the video and it's been really hard to watch these videos. But like I said, it's harder to be in these videos than to watch these videos, right? I mean, imagine the people that are living this day and night. You know, the father and the son, just this video today, a father and a son that are in the stretchers next to each other. And the son with whatever chemicals or whatever has been done to his face is comforting his father. Telling his father, you know, don't worry, you know, don't cry. We're going to make it through this Baba, don't cry anymore. I thought to myself, subhanAllah, what a people, what a people. It's an honor wallahi to be on their side. We pray that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala gather us with them.
Because if the majority of the people of Jannah are mustada'afeen and fuqara, imagine these people and their rank with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. So it's an honor for us to actually be their advocates bithnillah ta'ala in the belly of the beast, so to speak, even while we're being suffocated by the propaganda at every political and social level. That's a great point. And I think that's something on a lot of people's minds, how to respond. You mentioned the fact we are always forced to assume the position of condemnation and denunciation. And that is a deliberate tactic to keep us from pointing out the brutality and the inhumanity of the occupation. I'm sure everybody across North America or in other places, especially places in Europe, might even have it more difficult with less freedom to say what needs to be said. If you're someone who's put in a position to explain it to your coworker, explain it to your boss, or explain it to your professor, explain it to even local news, how should this thing be framed? How should people talk about it? What's the language that we should use? What's the language that we're forced to use that actually is a cage? Dr. Wim. Yeah, you know, subhanAllah, what I find is that if we are willing to talk, which is a hard thing to do, because there's this barrage of propaganda and assumptions and our own fears. But if you're willing to talk, talking about Salah seen is the easiest thing in the world to do.
Give an example, like you're living in your house, somebody else comes and shows you a mythology, a document, right, a fake document that nobody in the world today accepts, right? If you go to the city, nobody accepts that, you know, this document that you made up that, you know, 2000 years ago, somebody promised you this land, you say, okay, get out of here. Right? You can call the police on them. That would be the end of it. But that's not the world we live in. We live this when this happened, we live in a world colonized, where there were deliberate and genocides being committed by the British and the French empires, French and Algeria and elsewhere, right to the British in India, and South Asia and the Middle East, the Belgians in Congo. I mean, just this was the world in which the Jews were on the receiving end of this. For nearly 2000 years, Jews experienced European hospitality. Right? And our heart goes out to that this was persecution. And outside of the Islamic world, the Jews did not find thriving and flourishing and prosperity anywhere else. That was the only place. So now, when Europe dumps its own sins, its own guilt, and its own hatred, it wasn't just guilt, it was also an attempt to just get rid of the Jews, because anti-Semitism was still quite rampant, as it is until today, in Europe.
So Balfour Declaration, if you look at the politics around it, there is anti-Semitism, so to get rid of the Jews, and also the assumption that the Jews are pulling the strings in Russia, which was the reason Balfour Declaration was passed. Give them this piece of land, a land for people without land. That's the fiction. Today, if I tell an eighth grader, ninth grader, that this is what was said, they'd be like, that's insane. Right? They'd say, so this is not much of an argument. You don't have to say, if somebody comes to your home and says, you know, get out of here, I'm going to put you in a barn and in the garage, and you cannot go to the bathroom. If I kill your baby, you got to sit and watch that, and make sure you, my generation, will oppress your generation, my children, my next generation, will oppress your children, my grandchildren, will make sure that the lives of your grandchildren are like hell. That's the deal that's being given to Palestinians. And you ask anybody in the world, especially ask the people who, before starting their meetings, they say, oh, we're standing in stolen land, land in Canada, in the United States. Really? You feel guilty about that? Right? Land acknowledgments now, right?
Land acknowledgments, so 200 years from now, this is what they want to do, but they will not. I swear to Allah, they will not. It will be a very different story, but this is what they want to do to Palestinians. They want 200 years from now to say, yes, we came, and we massacred, and we murdered, we terrorized generations after generations. Right? We're sorry about that, but we're standing on that land. That's what they want to say, but they will not say that. I can guarantee, sure as anything. Tom, I would just add to that, you know, Dr. Wehmer is talking about sort of the legacy of colonialism, and you can't talk about this ethno-fascist state and the ideology of Zionism without knowing anything about colonialism, right? But I think to even pull from more recent history to sort of build on, you know, the fact that first and foremost, when you're talking to your colleagues, look, you really don't know what you're talking about. You're being fed some very reductionist points and a very, very skewed narrative. One of the things that the Quran and the Sunnah do frequently is the Prophet ﷺ tells you to put yourself in the place of someone else. That's very effective prophetic communication, right? Would you like this for yourself? Right? And so when I tell the story of my own parents, you know, my parents were born in Palestine. My dad always makes the joke, may Allah ﷻ preserve him. My dad's like, I'm five years older than Israel. I was born in 1943, and no one's going to tell me I was born in Israel. Right? I was born in Palestine. I'm older than the state of Israel.
My parents met in Houston. I've never been allowed back in the Palestine. I find out from, you know, distant relatives that, hey, you know, settlers just walked into this new piece of your land because I actually have land assigned to me somewhere in the West Bank right now. Right? That's in my name that I can't access. Oh, by the way, they just cut out this much. By the way, the wall just cut into this part of the land. And some folks from Long Island, right, are now living there. How ironic. On the basis of what? So the land theft, structural violence, and apartheid. Apartheid is a word. There's a reason why that word is so vehemently rejected by Western powers, because America stood against the freedom fighters of South Africa. America was the last leg of apartheid against the South Africans, and it's doing the same thing to the Palestinians. So I was showing you this book, old book, Palestine, Peace, Not Apartheid, by Jimmy Carter, who was, of course, a U.S. president. And this book was written in 2006. So just read this paragraph. A system of apartheid with two peoples occupying the same land but completely separated from each other, with Israelis today totally dominant and suppressing violence by depriving Palestinians of their basic human rights. This is the policy now being followed. Although many citizens of Israel deride the racist connotation of prescribing permanent second-class status for the Palestinians, as one prominent Israeli said, I am afraid that we are moving toward a government like that of South Africa with a dual society of Jewish rulers and Arab subjects with few rights of citizenship. The West Bank is not worth it.
An unacceptable modification of this choice now being proposed is the taking of substantial portions of the occupied territory with the remaining Palestinians completely surrounded by walls, fences, and Israeli checkpoints living as prisoners within the small portion of land theft to them. 2006, almost two decades ago. And if you look at a map and you see the expanding land theft, this is a U.S. president speaking. This is not some radical leftist, although he's been cast aside by presidents that followed as such. But this is a U.S. president, a diplomat in the full sense of the word, talking about what he saw with his tour back then. And then you talk about these last few years and what has taken place. You want to know why you're not seeing the Palestinian narrative? Because the Israeli government could shoot dead a Palestinian American journalist, could bomb the AP building, the Associated Press building, could bomb it to smithereens and not have to pay the price at all. Still be shielded from accountability by the American government. The Associated Press is out there still spewing Israeli propaganda, even after they flattened their building. So what chance do the indigenous people of Palestine, and we should use those words too because they're weaponized against us, what chance do the indigenous people of Palestine have without any of the tools of media to share their narrative when they have the entire weight of Western propaganda working against them? And they still have to fabricate news against us. They still have to fabricate. This is the irony of it all. You've done all of this and you still have to fabricate.
So when you're speaking to your colleagues, when you're speaking to people at work, and look, it takes a bit of tolerance from us. I mean, this is one of the hard things that also comes with being from the Ummah of the Prophet ﷺ is, look, we spare no du'a when it comes to making du'a against the oppressors. Our sunnah, alhamdulillah, our Prophet ﷺ teaches us exactly how to pray against an oppressor. But when someone's ignorant, you got to have a little bit more hilm for that person, a little bit more forbearance for that person's ignorance, and try to walk them out of that ignorance. And sometimes I think, and I speak for myself, by the way, that I found myself in conversations where I'm going off on a person, I have to kind of pull back and say, you know what? You just don't know any better. Let's walk this back. If you were in this position, someone walked into your home and threw you out of it, and relegated you to a tiny piece of land, took away your citizenship status, restricted every part of your movement, choked you off from the rest of the world. What do you do? And people forget, and I want to mention this because we need to educate our audience. Read, right? Read. But people forget. The people of Gaza in particular tried to protest in a non-violent way. They marched for an entire year on the apartheid wall in the Great Return March. And what happened? Read about Razan Najjar. May Allah accept her as a shaheedah. That young Palestinian medic that was out there trying to nurse the wounds of people that were being hit by Israeli snipers. What happened to Ibrahim Abu Thurayya? One of the most inspiring people. SubhanAllah, when I think of a man from Ahlul Jannah, I think of Ibrahim Abu Thurayya. May Allah accept him as such.
This guy was bombed in the previous bombing of 2014, lost all of his limbs, and was showing up to the Great March in his wheelchair, holding with whatever was left of his limbs, a Palestinian flag. And he was killed by an Israeli sniper. What threat did he pose? He was shot dead by an Israeli sniper. Rachel Corey, the irony of the American public, is that when American non-Muslims of conscience have gone over there and have been killed. Sharina Abu Aqla was not a Muslim. She's a Palestinian-American journalist. Fine. Rachel Corey, what did she do? What was her crime? What was her crime? This isn't the young Fatah Saudah standing in front of a tank, holding the rock, that iconic image of Palestinians. This was a white American woman. I believe she was 22 years old or 23 years old. Young white American woman that went over there as a peace activist and was run over by an Israeli bulldozer. On purpose. Full evidence there. This wasn't an AI-generated image like the one that Ben Shapiro puts up. This was a real image. And what did we do? Absolutely nothing. When you talk about the Palestinian people and what they have endured, no people in the world would endure what the Palestinian people have endured. And simply say that we just need to wrap this up and just move on with our lives. That's a lot of powerful commentary. I want to pull out and distill just three things from what you said, because I think they bear reiterating and for the audience, keeping them in mind, especially if you're young, if you're in these conversations, if you're on a college campus. The one thing is to bring people back to accountability.
What you said about the AP Press building. The amount of aid, military aid, that Israel gets every single day. And it's literally a blank check. Absolutely no accountability. They can do anything. There's nothing they can't do that will get that check to be even lessened, let alone scrapped. Right now, just from any rational person, you can think what you want about this side, that side or whatever, whatever your allegiance is. Tell me that that's a rational position to take. Tell me how long a nation can adopt that. As a policy, that they have an ally somewhere that can do absolutely anything they want with no strings attached, no accountability, no responsibility to act in any certain way. The second thing that you said is, it's like two and three. For people on the left, there's a cynical irony at play that the values that the left bases it takes pride in are being violated again and again and again, right in front of your face. You want to stand in front of a classroom and give a land acknowledgement. The land's being snagged right now. The land is being grabbed right now. The land grab did not end. We can have a conversation about how the land grab is not even over in the West, but it's ongoing right now. You have white guilt, for example, however many years removed. There's something happening. The exact same thing's happening right now in Palestine. So where are your morals? You want to pride yourself on the civil rights movement and the ending of segregation. That's happening right now in Palestine. So those are things that I think are really powerful for people to emphasize that when they're talking to other people, just be consistent for the love of God. Right. It's like if you claim to stand for something, either just admit that you're, okay, I should not use insulting language, but be consistent. Show that you have a spine, right, and try to think for yourself.
The last part, I think, is an interesting segue, the last thing that you said, because it brings us to another issue. There's a lot of dead ends that are sort of proposed to us when it comes to either, quote unquote, ways out of the, quote unquote, conflict or different sort of rhetoric that's deployed to take the conversation, to deflect, to take the conversation away from these sorts of things, such as the idea of normalization, such as the idea of, you know, the idea of, or a two state solution, or this solution or that solution. You know, how do we, how do we respond to those sorts of things? What are some thoughts that we have about that? Dr. Raymond Todd. I wanted to mention something slightly different. So if you want to take that one back to them. I think, you know, one of the most significant points, Imam Tom, like in this, in this discussion, to me, is in all of these discussions, the Palestinian voice itself, the Palestinians themselves are sidelined. So you have the Abraham Accords, which were shameful. And those that are in a position, I mean, I wrote an article why I opposed the Abraham Accords, you know, about a year ago. And I still oppose the Abraham Accords, I think they're as atrocious as they've ever been. And I had like, well meaning people that reached out and said, you know, why shouldn't, shouldn't you be for this? Like, isn't this good that people come together? You know, isn't this good that we, that finally, you know, we end the hostilities. And I said, No, you know, I'm pretty sure Ibrahim Islam, Abraham wasn't for arms deals and apartheid, which is all this is, right.
And so it's an apartheid state gets a pass on its apartheid for military contracts, and other sweet benefits to neighboring Arab countries. Like when was Israel at war with this country in that country in that country in the first place, right? Y'all have never been at war, right? Who gets to make peace on behalf of the Palestinians, so the Palestinians get moved to the side. And now what are you seeing in the media, and the headlines, Israel, Hamas, Israel, Hamas, Israel, Hamas, where in the world are the Palestinians, the 7 million people? Do they not get get any type of voice for themselves? Right? So whether you're talking about peace or war, the Palestinians are omitted themselves. And this is a deep hypocrisy, once again, exposing a double standard in the discourse. And I think that Palestinian society has called for the BDS movement, for boycotting, divesting, sanctioning, that has global implications that has domestic implications. It is a principled stance. It is one that, again, the thrust of the political establishment, and Allah knows best, all these new surveillance bills and other types of legislation they're trying to put out in these, you know, and rush in these few days that resembles the Patriot Act nonsense that came out after 9-11. And then what becomes, you know, an entire apparatus under in the name of countering violent extremism, Allah knows best, but you already have anti BDS laws on so many states books. When Muslims boycott, and when people of conscience boycott brands, divest from companies that deal in apartheid, that deal in occupation, we send a powerful message. And that takes a level of sacrifice on a personal level. That takes a level of sacrifice on a community level. And we should not apologize for that.
And the South African freedom fighters that fought apartheid there are the same ones that called what Israel has done to the Palestinians from Mandela to Tutu onwards, apartheid. And this is a concrete strategy that we can implement on a personal level, as a community, right, as people of consciousness that want to demonstrate a viable way to, you know, to be in solidarity with Palestinian society. Now, with that being said, look, you have your dua, we're a people of dua, we believe in our dua, we believe in Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, we never despair in our dua. So first and foremost, at the top of all of this, when people talk about, all right, what's the course of action? Of course, dua. No, no, like, first and foremost, dua, like, exert yourself in dua. Like, have you really exerted yourself in dua? Make dua for your brothers and sisters, not a single dua is going to go unheard by Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. And there is no such thing as a pointless supplication. So exert yourself in dua. Donate to these causes. You know, people have been asking about who's on the ground. I know Beitul Nahl has some positioning there, Islamic Relief, due to their prior infrastructure, especially in the West Bank, they have some ways, inshallah ta'ala, there's Pious Projects out of Chicago. You know, do your homework. Some people here are probably not even in the United States, and support these organizations, inshallah ta'ala, if it seems to check out with the right intention, bintanay ta'ala, raise your voice in whatever way that you can. If you lose something as a result of raising your voice for the Palestinians, for the sake of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, then that will be a means of your elevation in this life and the next, inshallah ta'ala. It's worth the sacrifice, make the sacrifice. We need to do it more than ever now.
And let's move away from this normalization nonsense, right? This has been to the great detriment of the Palestinian people. It has been a disservice, it has been a betrayal of the Palestinian people, and a betrayal of their cause. You know, there's one thing, subhanAllah, that could always unite the hearts of the believers around the world, and it was Palestine and Al-Aqsa. And there's been a systematic attempt to remove that, that consciousness from the ummah. And alhamdulillah, it hasn't worked. Alhamdulillah, we're seeing right now, it does not work. There is something that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has put in the heart of every believer. This is a matter of aqeedah. This is Quran. This is aqeedah. You're not going to remove Al-Aqsa from the hearts of anyone that believes in la ilaha illallah, Muhammadun Rasulullah. So we should reject normalization efforts. We should reject all attempts that try to, and this was part of the reason why Dr. Uweimer and I wrote this paper, they try to hudaybiya everything, right? Like, wait, wait, wait, calm, calm down. You know, the people themselves are not at the table. So how can they, how can they consent to this? So listen to the people themselves. We uplift the people themselves. And by the way, this isn't just true for the Palestinians, and I'll kind of end on this. This is true for the Syrians. This is true for the Uyghurs. This is true for the people of Kashmir. This is true for the people of India, and so on so forth, right? We follow their lead when they are the oppressed people, and we see how we can help them inshallah ta'ala to alleviate their oppression. And bid'nillahi ta'ala, we stay the course. Look, this is going to be a long, this is going to be, we're in this for the long haul. This is, you know, there are people who have lived through this trauma now for seven decades.
My father, right? Like I said, this started when he was five, you know, subhanAllah. So his whole life, he's known occupation. He's known displacement. He's known that rhetoric and destructive discourse his entire life. We need a little bit more steadfastness inshallah ta'ala. We need to be steadfast with this cause. We need to nurture the love of Palestine and the love of al-Aqsa in our kids' hearts. Because you know what? There are a lot of people that see al-Aqsa as a burden. There are a lot of people that see the Palestinian cause as a burden. You know, it's going to stunt certain mobility in politics, certain mobility in my career. And so if Palestine becomes a burden, so be it. You need to take this on because they are a people who Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala has entrusted you with in this moment right now. Their cause is your cause inshallah ta'ala. Do not forsake them. Do not turn your back on them. And we need to make sure that the next generation takes that as well. We're not going anywhere and we're not quitting. Jazakallah khair. Dr. Owaima, you were patient. Some final thoughts from you. Jazakallah khair. I was hearing every word and enjoying and celebrating because it's exactly what I would have said. But I want to say inshallah all the same things but in a different register. I want to talk to Muslims. I think it's really, really important that we talk to non-Muslim friends and many, many good people will immediately see the justice. In fact, I see Palestine as like really a moral heartbeat for the world because it's so clear what's right and what's wrong.
And it's so easy for people around the world. I mean, some of the best support that you get, some of the most enthusiastic are from the people who have, you know, who are Latin Americans or, you know, an African activist. And around the world, people see this and their heart breaks, right? That's why people who are part of the quote unquote third world, people who have been colonized. So you see and you say, wow, there is goodness. There is goodness in human fitrah. Human beings, humanity can be redeemed because these people actually, despite the propaganda, despite the fact they don't get anything out of supporting Palestine and they will get everything out of supporting this apartheid state. But they stand up, right? These are Christians. These are non-religious people. These are people, but they have a heart. And so that's, you know, I think that's a beautiful thing that reminds me of a teaching in my deen, in my religion, which is fitrah, that Allah has given an inclination for good that you cannot take away. And in the conditions when you have lies and media and fabrication and doublespeak and Orwellian world where people cannot do that, right, you have to break those idols. And I think that's possible. That's possible in America. That's possible in many countries in the world. But I want to speak in the other register, the register of Muslims, how I want to talk to Muslims, I want to talk to our young generation. It's really important. And that was a key point I wanted to make in that article with Sh.
That Palestine is an Islamic issue. It does not mean that it's not about justice, but it is equally and steeply. It's an issue of our Aqidah and it is not a nationalist issue, right? We don't make those claims merely on the basis of some kind of territorial system that, you know, you cannot steal people's land. We say that because it is a sign of the truth of Islam, truth of Allah that you find those prophecies coming true. And I say to our young generation and to the Imams today and the leaders and preachers and influencers of the heart, educate yourself and teach this stuff. Because you will learn the Qur'an, you will learn the Sunnah, you'll learn the truth about the world. That's number one. Also, speaking of Abraham, of course, and normalization. You know, SubhanAllah, I was thinking the other day, the hadith in which the Prophet ﷺ says that there will be a Ta'ifah Mansura, an aided group, blessed group. And, you know, a phrase and it says, It's really interesting, you know, if you see the phrase in Rasulullah ﷺ, that they will not be harmed by those. It doesn't talk about the enemy first, those who are doing the killing and oppression and opposition. But those who are betraying them are mentioned first. Those who will betray them will not harm them. It is as if Rasulullah ﷺ in his inspired words is taking into account Abraham, of course, and normalization.
And people who are saying, right, who do not mention Palestine. There is only one country in the world, as you know, in the Muslim world, that has not come out mentioning Palestine. As far as I know, there is only one country that calls itself Muslim, that has not done that and, in fact, joined the opposite side. And this is one of the most beautiful things about this heartbreaking incidents that are taking place, that despite the fact that many Muslim rulers want to jump over and normalize, they knew that there are certain limits they could not cross with their population, no matter how oppressed they are. They are not going to let them cross that line. Only one country has crossed that line and still supported Israel and has not mentioned Palestine. So, to me, this is like, subhanAllah, it is a miracle. It is an ayat, ayatillah azawajal, that the words of the Prophet ﷺ resonate in our daily life so well. I want to say that talking about Palestine is part of our deen. It is something you get ajr for. It is not wasted. It is not wasted time, as the normalizers or their supporters might say. It is to talk about the Qur'an. It is to talk about the sunnah. It is to talk about our history. It is talking about the ummah. It is to be what the Prophet ﷺ said, that Muslims, the believers, are one body when one part hurts. The entire body responds by staying up at night and responding with fever. So, if you have a Palestine fever, if you have a Palestine fever or a Kashmir fever or a Uyghur fever, then glad tidings to you that you are a believer.
And if you are saying, sitting in your chair and saying, Palestine is not our burden, you got to check yourself. Because somehow you don't figure in the equation. مَنْ لَمْ يَهْتَمْ بِأَمْرِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَلَيْسَ مِنْهُمْ As the hadith attributed to the Prophet ﷺ, whoever doesn't care about the affairs of Muslims is not one of them. It's the truth, even though its attribution to the Prophet ﷺ is considered weak. So, talk about Palestine. And to reiterate what Sheikh Hamar said, to make du'a. But remember, du'a is an action plan for a believer. Du'a is an action plan for a believer. When you get up in the morning and make du'a, Oh Allah, give me piety, give me righteousness, right? Save me from deceiving others, save me from being deceived. It's also an action plan, I'm going to do something about it. So, when you make du'a, first of all, you have to make du'a, and we do not make enough du'a. I do not make enough du'a, despite the fact that I do, alhamdulillah. I do not make enough du'a, we have to, but it also has to be an action plan. So, we have to talk about Palestine. You have to talk about Palestine from the perspective that we are talking about, which is you have to know, you know, the oppression. You have to know the regulations, the international law, right? The international law that's been violated, we have to tell our children. But we also have to tell them about the law of Allah that has been violated. And we have to tell them about the promises of Allah that are being kept. And we have to talk about the ayat that mention these struggles. And I will end with this incident between Musa, alayhis salaam, and Fir'aun,
that has always been with me as so current. So, Musa, alayhis salaam, as we all know, the Qur'an speaks of how he is from Banu Israel, who were the believers and the Muslims of the time. They are being oppressed in Egypt. Musa, alayhis salaam, is among them, but raised in Pharaoh's palace. He grows up, accidentally kills an Egyptian, runs away. When he comes back, he is given prophethood. He now goes to Pharaoh. So, this is the scene in Surat al-Shu'ara, right? Surat al-Shu'ara, the scene is that he comes to Fir'aun, and he makes da'wah. And Fir'aun says to him, almost exactly like it is as if you're hearing Israeli defense minister, or Anthony Blinken, right? Yeah, same thing. President Biden, I didn't mention because I don't think he can say that many words. So, what does Fir'aun say to him? Qala alam nurabbika feena waleedan. Did we not raise you among us as children? So, favor upon you, right? So, Fir'aun, propaganda, right? A master of propaganda. He says, look, Musa, Moses, I raised you. Wa fa'alta fa'alataka allati fa'alta. And then you did this crime that you know about. Wa kunta minal kafireen. And you were ungrateful. So, this is Pharaoh, right? Fir'aun. This is the Qur'an. So, now Musa, alayhi salam, responds and says, Qala fa'altuka fa'altuha idhan wa ana minal dhaleen. Yes, I did that, and I was among those who went astray.
I made a mistake. And then Musa, alayhi salam, says, Wa farartu minkum. I ran away. Wa lamma khiftukum fabahab li rabbi hukman. Then Allah SWT gave me this wisdom, this knowledge from Allah. And then, and then Musa does what I believe is like the most powerful, most amazing thing. He says, Wa tilka ni'matin tamunnuha alayya. Ana abbatta bani Israel. And the blessing that you're talking about, your greatness, what you did for me, you raised me in your palace. Here is something I'll tell you what you did. You have been slaved. My people, you have enslaved bani Israel, the believers, the Muslims of the time. So Musa, alayhi salam, identifies himself as the Muslims, the believers, all of them. Not himself, who was raised in the palace. He identifies with his people. Wa tilka ni'matin tamunnuha alayya. Ana abbatta bani Israel. That's what you've done. You have colonized my people. You have enslaved my people. You have terrorized my people. You have divided and humiliated my people. And now you're telling me you raised me. So it is as if this little favor, right? Musa, alayhi salam, is the exact opposite of Abraham, of course. He's saying, you're not going to bribe me because I am with my people. I'm my ummah, I'm ummatic. And so this is a brilliant example of deconstruction in the Qur'an. That's decoloniality. That's Qur'anic decoloniality that I want to teach our next generation. I think, Tom, can I just 20 seconds? Yeah, of course.
When they say these slogans, subhanAllah, no justice, no peace. Allah azawajal says, inna Allah ya'muru bil adli wal ihsan. Allah commands justice and kindness, excellence. Ibn Abbas says, you can't have ihsan if you don't have adl. So subhanAllah, again, we have a consistency, a coherence here, which Dr. Owaimer is talking about. We are people who want peace, but just like any common sense would say to anybody else, even from their fitrah, you can't have peace without justice. And so we pray for justice for the for the people of Palestine and for peace to come after that justice. I mean, I mean, thank you both so much for participating in this conversation. SubhanAllah, very emotional day. We all have a lot of du'a to make. So thank you both. SubhanAllah.
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